yung4evr wrote:
McChesney went 8:50 for the 2m, but not sure about the others.
I think Lakeman (4:05) was on that team. Did he run 3200?
yung4evr wrote:
McChesney went 8:50 for the 2m, but not sure about the others.
I think Lakeman (4:05) was on that team. Did he run 3200?
Watchout, I listed the Lompoc times for their fall track postal race and three track season times, both sets provided by Jim Warrick. If you look at both sets of times, you would notice that the best three individual 2 miles were:
Williams 8:54.8
Schankel 9:07
Gilmore 9:15
Sorry listing both sets confused you.
G.B. wrote:
Watchout, I listed the Lompoc times for their fall track postal race and three track season times, both sets provided by Jim Warrick. If you look at both sets of times, you would notice that the best three individual 2 miles were:
Williams 8:54.8
Schankel 9:07
Gilmore 9:15
Sorry listing both sets confused you.
The list I was compiling was all-time outdoor track 2 mile/3200m times, because to put it simply, I don't think anyone knows all the times ever run for 2 miles if you start to include time trials for guys that never ran competitive 2 miles during track (e.g., guys that were extremely good in cross country that either focused heavily on the 800/mile in track or were injured and never had the chance to run it, and there might even be cases where guys that were among the best 3 in their school simply didn't run track period, let alone focusing on other events).
So did Gilmore run 9:15 in spring track outdoors? I realize he may very well have been the third best guy on Lompoc's roster, but since I was compiling the list of outdoor 2 mile/3200m marks...
3x2 wrote:
3 <9 in one year, at one school can be explained by a statistical anomaly or by a really good coach.
But I've never heard of any more exceptional teams from Hammond.
Then again, I am not from Indiana.
who was their coach and who else has he produced?
Dan Candiano - '71-'76.
Carey Pinkowski speaks about Hammond High.
I had been a runner since I was about 14 or 15 as a sophomore in high school. Before that I grew up playing all the traditional sports of baseball, basketball and football. I was a pretty good basketball player. I started out in cross country as a sophomore and had some success. Then the next two years since I won the State in cross country and the mile I was recruited by Jumbo Elliott to go to Villanova.
Coach Candiano was an accomplished athlete himself in high school and at DePaul University. When he coached us he was still a relatively young guy and was fit so he ran with us and trained with us. He brought an insight and fresh perspective to cross country and was a real ‘hands on guy’ who took some decent runners and gave us direction and guidance. He created quite a group of guys out of a nucleus of six or eight kids who wanted to work hard. We trained twice a day in the off season and then once the success started it snowballed.
Dennis Cordell was two years older than me and ran a 9:06 2-mile and then Chapa, Keogh and I followed the blueprint for success. We saw Dennis working hard and being champion at big meets and we realized if we worked harder than other kids we had that same chance to succeed. Coach Candiano helped us understand that our training may not pay off immediately, but like ‘money in the bank’ would pay off in a year if we kept adding to it.
There were periods when we did only distance when we may have hit 120 or 130 miles a week, but it was all easy. The key was that we did most of it in a park on soft surfaces on a trail that was maybe two and a quarter miles around so that kept us healthy. A lot of times we ran 45 or 50 miles in the morning without a specific distance – it was for time. Another thing we did was we ran varied pace maybe picking it up on one side of the park. We did a lot of changing speeds so it gave us the ability to be stronger. We didn’t run sessions like repeat 4:30 miles or 67 quarters but we just got competitive with each other.
It wasn’t really a goal for the three of us to break nine minutes for two miles – it just happened. But people still talk about it after all these years which is the beauty of the track as times are always a barometer that can be compared. We wanted to race well at the State meet. In fact I only ran the two-mile twice my senior year at the duel meet where I broke 9:00 and at the International Prep Meet. I was more of an 880 and mile runner. There was a rule that we couldn’t ‘double’ so we couldn’t take advantage of Tim, Rudy and I running more than a single event. When I look back we probably could have won a couple State track championships if not for that rule.
Candiano coaching wrote:
Carey Pinkowski speaks about Hammond High.
I had been a runner since I was about 14 or 15 as a sophomore in high school. Before that I grew up playing all the traditional sports of baseball, basketball and football. I was a pretty good basketball player. I started out in cross country as a sophomore and had some success. Then the next two years since I won the State in cross country and the mile I was recruited by Jumbo Elliott to go to Villanova.Coach Candiano was an accomplished athlete himself in high school and at DePaul University. When he coached us he was still a relatively young guy and was fit so he ran with us and trained with us. He brought an insight and fresh perspective to cross country and was a real ‘hands on guy’ who took some decent runners and gave us direction and guidance. He created quite a group of guys out of a nucleus of six or eight kids who wanted to work hard. We trained twice a day in the off season and then once the success started it snowballed.
Dennis Cordell was two years older than me and ran a 9:06 2-mile and then Chapa, Keogh and I followed the blueprint for success. We saw Dennis working hard and being champion at big meets and we realized if we worked harder than other kids we had that same chance to succeed. Coach Candiano helped us understand that our training may not pay off immediately, but like ‘money in the bank’ would pay off in a year if we kept adding to it.
There were periods when we did only distance when we may have hit 120 or 130 miles a week, but it was all easy. The key was that we did most of it in a park on soft surfaces on a trail that was maybe two and a quarter miles around so that kept us healthy. A lot of times we ran 45 or 50 miles in the morning without a specific distance – it was for time. Another thing we did was we ran varied pace maybe picking it up on one side of the park. We did a lot of changing speeds so it gave us the ability to be stronger. We didn’t run sessions like repeat 4:30 miles or 67 quarters but we just got competitive with each other.
It wasn’t really a goal for the three of us to break nine minutes for two miles – it just happened. But people still talk about it after all these years which is the beauty of the track as times are always a barometer that can be compared. We wanted to race well at the State meet. In fact I only ran the two-mile twice my senior year at the duel meet where I broke 9:00 and at the International Prep Meet. I was more of an 880 and mile runner. There was a rule that we couldn’t ‘double’ so we couldn’t take advantage of Tim, Rudy and I running more than a single event. When I look back we probably could have won a couple State track championships if not for that rule.
Good story.
I wonder, did the no doubling rule help or hurt athletes?
watchout wrote:
G.B. wrote:Watchout, I listed the Lompoc times for their fall track postal race and three track season times, both sets provided by Jim Warrick. If you look at both sets of times, you would notice that the best three individual 2 miles were:
Williams 8:54.8
Schankel 9:07
Gilmore 9:15
Sorry listing both sets confused you.
The list I was compiling was all-time outdoor track 2 mile/3200m times, because to put it simply, I don't think anyone knows all the times ever run for 2 miles if you start to include time trials for guys that never ran competitive 2 miles during track (e.g., guys that were extremely good in cross country that either focused heavily on the 800/mile in track or were injured and never had the chance to run it, and there might even be cases where guys that were among the best 3 in their school simply didn't run track period, let alone focusing on other events).
So did Gilmore run 9:15 in spring track outdoors? I realize he may very well have been the third best guy on Lompoc's roster, but since I was compiling the list of outdoor 2 mile/3200m marks...
Terry Williams ran 8:54.8 at the 1973 Cali state meet.
Jim Schankel ran 8:56.9 at the 1974 Cali state meet.
Roger Fabin(sp?) ran 9:09.2 in 1974
Hopefully this will help:http://www.dyestatcal.com/ATHLETICS/TRACK/stateres.htm#1974
North Hills, PA
Joe Kush, Juris Silenieks and Zach Hebda.
2010 3200m
Joe 9:12, Juris 9:15, Zach 9:17
Footlocker Northeast Regionals
Zach 9, Juris 11, Joe 13
I can not WAIT to see what these 3 do in the 3200 outdoors! all have the capabilities to go low 9s!
Could be one of the best trios ever!
Deerfield 77-
Tom Stevens, Class of 79' 4:08.7 1600m / 8:56.3 3200m / 14:17 3-mile
Keith Hampton, Class of 78' 4:11.1 1600m / 9:05.1 3200m / 14:33 3-mile
Todd McCallister, Class of 78' 4:05.5 1600m / 9:07.9 3200m / 14:14 3-mile
Mark McCallister, Class of 78' 4:09.3 1600m / 9:10.4 3200m / 14:16 3-mile
Dane Rutstein, Class of 78'
4:17.8 1600m / 9:16.4 3200m / 14:19 3-mile
Stevens' 8:56 is from the next year, not sure if he ran faster than 9:10 as a junior.
9:05.1 + 9:07.9 + 9:10.4 = 27:23.4
1974 South Eugene
1. Bill McChesney Jr. 8:50, 2. Steve McChesney 9:04; 3. Seth Brown 8:30.8 3K; 4. John Gustafson 9:16; 5. Rich Harter 9:21.
wrong, billy was a freshman in '74 and running ~4;30 mile.gustafson set a natl hs record for the steeple in '75.
SouthE wrote:
1974 South Eugene
1. Bill McChesney Jr. 8:50, 2. Steve McChesney 9:04; 3. Seth Brown 8:30.8 3K; 4. John Gustafson 9:16; 5. Rich Harter 9:21.
watchout wrote:
The list I was compiling was all-time outdoor track 2 mile/3200m times . . . the list of outdoor 2 mile/3200m marks...
Obviously, you can create any lists you'd like but the OP asked what teams had three guys run what times in the 2 mile/3200 (during the same school year). Lompoc ran the first set of times in a race on a track during cross country season. Since the times are known and were run in an official meet, why would they not count?
Given that cross country scores five and runs seven, it would interesting to know what top teams' best two mile/3200 times were for five and seven runners during the same school year.
Lompoc has to be near the top of those lists with a 9:12 two mile average for five and a 9:18 two mile average for seven.
[quote].wtf. wrote:
wrong, billy was a freshman in '74 and running ~4;30 mile.
[quote]SouthE wrote:
BM was a lot faster than 4:30 as a frosh - more like 4:18.
prove it.
Candiano, Chapa, Keogh, and Pinkowski, 1/3 of the way down the page.
Dyestat thread about Chapa vs Fout
G.B. wrote:
watchout wrote:The list I was compiling was all-time outdoor track 2 mile/3200m times . . . the list of outdoor 2 mile/3200m marks...
Obviously, you can create any lists you'd like but the OP asked what teams had three guys run what times in the 2 mile/3200 (during the same school year). Lompoc ran the first set of times in a race on a track during cross country season. Since the times are known and were run in an official meet, why would they not count?
Given that cross country scores five and runs seven, it would interesting to know what top teams' best two mile/3200 times were for five and seven runners during the same school year.
Lompoc has to be near the top of those lists with a 9:12 two mile average for five and a 9:18 two mile average for seven.
That's fine and all, but trying to research who had the fastest 3 guys of all time is far more futile if you start including unofficial time trials for guys that may or may not have ever run track, if not for the simple fact that probably 30% of "best" performances are never going to be published, even for guys that have gone sub-9:10.
For example, what did Jeff See run for 2 miles at his best? He ran some pretty good miles, and he was a good XC guy, but did he ever run a 2 mile on the track? He probably did at some point during cross country training, but I can't remember a time he focused on the event in track as a senior or even a junior.
What did Matt Davis run for 2 miles at his best? His 14:09.x at the WA state meet (3 mile course) indicates he was probably sub-8:50 at that time, probably close to around 8:45, but since he was injured we never saw what he could do for 2 miles on the track.... but he probably ran a 2 mile time trial at some point, right?
What did Leon Dean run for 2 miles at his best? He was a clear #2 for the 2008 NXN champs, but he focused on the 1600/800 in track.
What about guys like Ryan Hall, Matt Centrowitz (SR), John Quade, John Zishka, and the hundred of other kids that focused on the mile or 800 but were good at XC run for 2 miles at their peak?
No one is going to have all those answers. There is no way to figure out what each team had in time trials unless they were all written down somewhere, and even then you're only looking at one race for many of those athletes. And if you're trying to find the BEST x number of teams over the years in terms of 3x2mile times, how are you ever going to find out if the information is mostly unattainable?
The only way you can really go about it is to limit the criteria to something that can be more easily attained: track marks during track season. Sure, you'll miss out on kids who were injured during their senior seasons, and miss out on kids who focused on the middle distances instead, but that is the only way you're going to have everyone on more or less the same footing. Introducing un-research-able criteria is going to establish an informational bias, and you'll never accomplish the goal of figuring out who were among the best.
Here is their training from T&FN
http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?p=22902
Also in a previous letsrun thread
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=3369678&page=1
Those sure are a lot of repetitions for a "mostly easy mileage" type of program.