306 people run a half marathon totally barefoot

Anand wrote:Now I know what you guys are trying to arrive at. Intially I thought you are going to raise some sensible issues. But this chronic self-denial can only be a by-product of deep-set inferiority complex.

Pranks and giggles aren't going to shield you from the real challenge. Neither baseless economic belittling going to take you far.

1000 barefooters. December 2011. AIMS certified 4-lap HM course.

Can you guys cobble up even 30 trotters to limp around the 21.1 km barefooted?

No problem at all Mr Anand, why don't we put some money on who fares better, the shoes versus the barefoot cultists? We could score 10 or 20 or 30 deep, doesn't matter as I'm doubtful any of those hobby joggers crack the top 100 on a certified 1/2 marathon course.

Anand wrote:Glad we are now boiling down to specifics. We are talking a 'Marathon' run, not a Sparta or an Ultra, right? So we accept it at 26.2, the Olympic standard, not legend specifications. And mind you, Olympics doesn't lay down a 'shod' pre-requisite. These boys did 13.1 miles comfortably, then dipped their feet in ice-cold water, went home, and were back for their training the next day. In a couple of years, we will raise the length to 26.2 miles. More due to logistics reasons than the ability of the barefooters. Come to watch it, I bet. There won't be any hearses on standby.

They were back for their training the next day? You mean they 'raced' a 1/2 marathon and then all showed up to practice the next day? Do you seriously expect us to believe that 306 people showed up to the same practice? That must be the world's largest training group ever!

Oh, I like this constructive approach to gang bullying. You are suggesting a 'shod vs barefoot'contest? Perfect. I think the entire marathon world will be interested in the outcome. With a bit more screening by mid this year, we will have atleast 100 barefooters capable of a 1:12 (or less) on a certified HM course. And as I told you, we will have another 900 also tuned in. Now, what's your line up going to be? December will be a pleasant month in Bombay and it will also give both sides enough time to sharpen their wares.

Well, as for the boys coming back for training the next day, let's not be very literal. I had actually taken a sampling. Three days after the race I personally interviewed the top ten, who said they felt fit and fine enough to be back to practice the very next day. Some suffered blisters, which was treated with ice water. At least one of them told me, he was ready for a run on day 2, even with blisters. They are used to it.

Reading this thread is making me more and more racist against Indian people. It's becoming painful to read, and considering the rest of the drivel on this message board, that's really saying something.

Tell you what. You pick the date you are going to do your run in Bombay and we'll just take another 1/2 marathon around the same time and compare results. Sound fair?

Why, you hesitant of a face-to-face, or shall we say feet-to-feet? I would strongly suggest you come to Bombay, otherwise you will never believe what happened. As it is, it seems the whole thing is too much for you guys to comprehend, let alone digest. As they say, seeing is believing.

It's hard to believe because 1) India has no tradition of distance running 2) these runners do not appear to be trained or moving at a convincing pace 3) there are no posted results aside from your rubbish posts, which seem very propaganda-ish and 4) there is no certified course map on your website.

Can you direct me to other race results from the race winner? If he's run an equivalent performance to 1:10 I'll believe you.

Anand wrote:

I say, you are so confused, you cannot recognise your own mirror image. I am only telling you that Pheidippides not wearing any footwear is as true as Lincoln sporting a beard. Both come to us as works of art. And if you want to verify that, go to Athens,or just log into Wikipedia.

And don't keep challenging me on the distance part. When skippers are convinced, I cant care less for fellers. Look at Guinness certificate on my page.

Anand, I don't believe anything you say, except that 155 of the 306 runners ran faster than 2:30:00.

As others have said, the winner was barely jogging, he was not going 5:20, or even 6:20 pace. He was as slow as molasses.

2:30:00 is 11:27 per mile. Which looks about as fast as most of those people were running. If half of them ran 2:30:00 that means that half ran SLOWER than 2:30:00. This is not running. It's barely Gallowalking, err, I mean Gandharwalking.

Your account of Phiedippides is also incorrect. For one the myth that he was at the Plains of Marathon during battle is wrong. I don't know where you get the idea that he was barefoot. He was employed by the State as a messenger. No doubt he was wearing shoes, as everyone else had them too.

Study up on your History, Anand.

In Herotodus' authoritative account of the Persian Wars in Histories (440 BC), he makes no mention of any messenger by any name making the trek from marathon to Athens to pronounce victory. The only messenger cited anywhere in Histories was Philppides, who was nowhere near the Battle at Marathon. The tale of Pheidippides and his early demise wouldn't come for another 600 years.

490 BC September Athenian army, badly outnumbered, defeat Persian army at Marathon.

484 BC Herodotus (aptly known as 'the father of history") is born (died 424 BC), would write 'Histories' the authoritative account of the battle of Marathon.

From 'Histories':

Pheidippides purported run from Marathon to Athens is one of the original urban myths. If you re-read Histories you'll find that Pheidippides was nowhere near Marathon at the time. In fact, there is no mention of Pheidippedes in 'Histories' at all.

Philippedes, who was a professional messenger, and was on his regular 145 mile (one way) Athens to Sparta route at the time. Philippedes was sent to Sparta to request help since the Athenians were badly outnumbered by the invading Persian army. The Spartans, being bad-assed-muthas, said "let's rumble", as they always do, but were right in the middle of another bacchanalia. Bacchanals were the Grecian equivalent of tailgating. Being a little hung over from drinking fermented grapes, they warned that they'd be a little late to the battle. The Athenians couldn't wait, and even though badly outnumbered, they still opened up an urn of whoop-ass on the Persian Army. That's the way it happened, 2500 years ago.

Note that there is no mention in 'Histories' of a messenger by ANY name being sent to Athens from Marathon after the Battle.

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300 BC The philosopher Pontikos said that Thersippus, a soldier made the trek from Marathon in full armor and died after announcing victory.

600 years after the Battle of Marathon:

100 AD Plutarch wrote in 'Moralia' that it was Eukles made the 25 mile run from Marathon to Athens.

150 AD Finally, satirist Lucianus (basically the Dave Barry of the day) said that Pheidippides made the run from Athens to Marathon. After reaching the city, he said, "Rejoice, we conquer," and then collapsed and died

In summation, the urban legend of Pheidippides demise came 640 years after the battle of Marathon by a Greek comedian.

Rim shot.

As a parting gift I'm going to leave you a little video montage that I made featuring two of the best musicians who ever lived performing a live rendition of "Song of India" flawlessly against a backdrop of images of your beautiful country.

You may find some things about India hard to believe. I too agree. Lots of wonderful things happen in India. But it is the bane of our countrymen that they do not come out and blow their trumpets. And when they do, Silicon Valley shifts to Bangalore.

Indians do have a strong long distance running tradition. I myself realised the barefoot potential only very recently. And when I announced the plans for a barefoot HM, applications flooded in.

You doubt the winner's 1:10? Well, based on his previous runs, Kamlya Joma Bhagat was expected to breast the tape between 1:12 to 1:14. He surprised us with a 1:10:03. He had won earlier in Ispat marathons (http://www.ispatind.com/ispat_marathon.htm). In this site also you will see some boys running bare. But unlike our HM, not everyone was required to run barefoot.

Anand wrote:

Now I know what you guys are trying to arrive at. Intially I thought you are going to raise some sensible issues. But this chronic self-denial can only be a by-product of deep-set inferiority complex.

Pranks and giggles aren't going to shield you from the real challenge. Neither baseless economic belittling going to take you far.

1000 barefooters. December 2011. AIMS certified 4-lap HM course.

Can you guys cobble up even 30 trotters to limp around the 21.1 km barefooted?

Anand, that's great that you are going to have an AIMS certified Half Marathon, but why isn't your race on their calendar?

Also, why have a certified course when you won't publish the results? It seems rather pointless to me.

Malmo, I enjoyed reading your sentences: "I don't know where you get the idea that he (Pheidippedes) was barefoot. He was employed by the State as a messenger. No doubt he was wearing shoes, as everyone else had them too."

You certainly seem to have some sort of gifted vision, which has made you see Pheidi wearing shoes. But to my mundane eyes, whatever was visible was a statue of this guy in Athens, and that one sure had no shoes. Come to think of it, it was highly improbable that the Athenians despatched a runner instead of a horseman to convey the message. Doesn't it make more sense? But then there's one account that says that the terrain was so rocky and steep that horse would have found it difficult. Does that sound surprising? Maybe not, considering the fact that the horse is the only dumb animal other than the heel-strikers of course, which wears a shoe. (Due credit to the horse, he doesn't voluntarily tie the laces. But resists violently when it is heartlessly rammed in). And if the shoe was to hinder the horse's progress up the slippery rocks, and so if a runner was despatched, all the more reason the generals would have ensured he took off shoes while he did the run; never mind, everyone else wore shoes all other times, as you seem to be convinced.

We may endlessly go on crediting / uncrediting / discrediting Herodotus, Robert Browning or Pierre Le Coubertin for this wonderful pehnomenon that is finally distilled with us: a marathon race perpetuated by a legend called Pheidippedes. And rightly or wrongly, some sculptor in Athens decided not to 'enshod' this guy. So for want of any further evidence, heel-srikers should atleast be graceful enough to accept that the legend ran barefoot.

Malmo, you seive through all the AIMS calendars. Why don't you just for once log into Wikipedia and see for yourselves whether Pheidippedes wears footwear or not? It doesn't cost as much as going to Athens.

As I told earlier, there were some things not well orgnised, like the web site updations with our HM. That does not take away the focus from the facts. Hold you horses for 11 months more. You can then add one more beautiful episode of a live barefoot HM run to your superb video of our country. Thanks a ton for that. I will have it featured on our FB pages, if you would so agree.

Ha, just read 'Born to Run', it brought me here.

Tried barefoot a few times last year; it's liberating. The only obstacle is getting your soles adjusted.

Anand, you're more than welcome to link that video to your FB page.

I'm not sure why you think that citing the work of a sculptor's work, 2000 years after the fact, as being a historical representation of history. Nor does it furter your opinion to cite Robert Browning or Pierre Le Coubertin.

Herodotus is considered to be the authority on the subject, as his work came closest to the actual events. As for your contention that horsemen were dispatched back to Athens to convey the news, that is neither logical nor historical. The cavalry in those days was for the noblemen. It was a small part of the forces, and would not have gotten back to Athens and faster than a foot soldier would have.

The answer to your question is right there in 'Histories'. when the Persian Army retreated to their ships, they sailed around the Attica Peninsula in an attempt to attack a defenseless Athens. The Athenian Army rushed back to Athens to defend the city.

Why is it hard to understand that running for health (into old age) and running for winning (among the mostly 20-somethings here) are different goals?

I've had almost every running injury in the book, until the day I started running barefoot, years ago. And I had the best healthcare. Many, many others tell the same story. Who cares that I'm not winning - I wasn't winning when I wore shoes, and I was slower. 99% of people have no interest in winning a race, but they DO want to get exercise and stay healthy. That's where the barefooting comes in.

I know so many former competitive runners, barely in their 30s, with serious, chronic, in some cases permanent injuries. What's the point that they were once faster than I was/am, if now they can't run at all?

How many people ("non-runners") have you met who say they can no longer run because their knees hurt or their back hurts? It's endemic!

Didn't Pheidippedes also die after his marathon run?

Anand wrote:

Did Pheidippedes actually do it barefoot, or did he wear some sort of sandals or other foot covering? Where's your proof?

This question shows Engineer, that you have run marathons, if at all, only in the wrong places. Do you know where it all originated? In Greece. From Marathon battlefield to Athens. If and when you run this original classic route, you will see a statue of Pheidippedes on the way. Go near it with a camera. Don't assume and presume things. Take a snap of his feet and show it to all ye heel-strikers.

He also has a scabbard hanging from his hip. Not a bad idea to run with one in future. May be of use if you pass by.

Do master the basics of a marathon run first,get the facts straight, before attempting eloquence.

If it was really for health and longevity, then there would not be this BS about not being able to use the barefoot technique with shoes as the main danger with barefoot running is a puncture injury.

At least the Chi Runners allow for shoe wear, even conventional running shoes.

Also why not just convert to walking if the goal was injury prevention? Race walkers go sub 7 minute miles which is plenty fast for most.

Barefooters should take a clue from walkers and leave shod runners alone. Just consider barefoot running and shod running as two different sports with shod running being the more "dangerous" sport if you want. There's no b1tching between stock car and Indy car racing, beach vs court volleyball, greco vs freestyle wrestling, ballroom vs latin dancing.

Also acknowledge that a lot of Americans are fat and sedentary and will need to wear shoes and will heel strike due to poorly conditioned calf muscles at least to start off with any kind of running program. And will take months to lose the weight and condition themselves to even be in the right shape to START barefoot running. And then there is the issue of learning proper form and technique which is simple task (one barefoot coach offers FIVE 50 minute coaching sessions as part of "comprehensive package). A lot of dance lessons don't require that amount of coaching.

Anand wrote:Why, you hesitant of a face-to-face, or shall we say feet-to-feet? I would strongly suggest you come to Bombay, otherwise you will never believe what happened. As it is, it seems the whole thing is too much for you guys to comprehend, let alone digest. As they say, seeing is believing.

I'm not going to Bombay, not even on my list of places to visit (sorry if there are any Indians out there, just not my type of travel destination). I don't even care if your course isn't accurate, it won't matter.

We know, it's all because of those damn evil shoes. But do you have any proof to back that up?

Anand wrote:You doubt the winner's 1:10? Well, based on his previous runs, Kamlya Joma Bhagat was expected to breast the tape between 1:12 to 1:14. He surprised us with a 1:10:03. He had won earlier in Ispat marathons (http://www.ispatind.com/ispat_marathon.htm). In this site also you will see some boys running bare. But unlike our HM, not everyone was required to run barefoot.

There are no results posted for this marathon, so yes, we doubt the winner's 1:10.