Doug Logan Lawsuit - USATF being petty?

Might be interesting if Logans defense would be allowed to compare expense reports from other execs to see what the "standard" is internally. I would guess a audit might show that the assertion without merit as all practice the same standard of filing.

Tax filing ? Has nothing to do with anything , it will be tossed in a heartbeat. This is between Logan , the IRS and state tax offices. Easy settlement in most cases.

wejo wrote:

With USATF being a non profit and any settlement likely being hundreds of thousands I'm under the assumption it has to be revealed somewhere for tax-exempt status but that is just an assumption. Anyone know for sure?

It will have to show up somewhere on the books but not necessarily as a line-itme for "litigation losses" or something of that nature. It may well be subsumed under a broader category. That is speculation as I do not know the details of how USATF keeps it books but it is consistent with what I have seen from other not-for-profits.

a) you have this backwards. you pay the tax in the state in which you earn the money (in this case indiana) and then get a credit in your state of residence (in this case florida). it does not work in the opposite direction.

b) florida does not have a personal income tax anyway (with some minor exceptions not relevant here).

c) i don't know a lot about estimated taxes, but i don't think that a wage earner can opt out of employer-withholding and make it up with estimated tax payments. i'm not sure about this though.

d) i find it hard to believe that indiana state income tax violations would provide cause for firing, and in many ways it is really USATF at fault for failing to withhold, even after his request.

to get st witholding to zero, you set the exemptions to 99. for instance i am a nevada resident, and have ventures in california. i set my cal st witholding to 99, then the deduction is zero on my paycheck.

"a) you have this backwards. you pay the tax in the state in which you earn the money (in this case indiana) and then get a credit in your state of residence (in this case florida). it does not work in the opposite direction."

Not true. He would file his tax return in his Tax Home state (Florida) and would also file a Non-Resident tax return for Indiana. The Flordia tax return would include all his income from USATF, interest, dividends, partnership interests, etc., but the Indiana tax return would allocate out only his Indiana source income. If he claims to have worked from his Florida home, there may be little or no Indiana income to report.

Normally, if both states had an income tax, he would end up paying tax only in Florida, unless Indiana had higher tax rates than Florida. Apparently, in this case Florida doesn't have an income tax, so he may well have to pay income tax on the Indiana source portion of his income.

I would love to see the courts demand to see the reimbursement records from Hightower, Chaplin and a few others, for the purpose of determining the standard. Can you imagine Chaplin and Hightower having their records exposed to USATF members and the rest of the public?

now that DL has been ratted out yeah he has to do that. if he just kept his pants down and let wickens wack his butt everyday then he could have skated out of it. many do. as long as you pay the IRS appx 10% of your gross you are out of the beaten zone.

If potential successors to Logan were not scared of this board before, they should be now. Do they understand the message they are sending to future CEO's?

FOXTROT YANKEE wrote:

Normally, if both states had an income tax, he would end up paying tax only in Florida, unless Indiana had higher tax rates than Florida. Apparently, in this case Florida doesn't have an income tax, so he may well have to pay income tax on the Indiana source portion of his income.

ok, you still have this completely backwards. you do not get a tax credit in the state of employment based on income tax paid in the state of residence. it is the other way around. he would pay tax on his indiana income in indiana as a non-resident, and then he would claim a tax credit on his florida tax return.

because we have needlessly gone through this twice already, here is one link describing the real world rules:

it says in part:

"Most nonresident state filing situations boil down to these three steps:

1. Prepare a return for the nonresident state. You will only report the income and withholdings from that state.

2. Prepare a return for your resident state. You will report all of your income (including income from the nonresident state).

3. Take a credit for taxes paid to the nonresident state on your resident state return so that you won't get double-taxed on the same income.

For example, if you live in Kansas but work in neighboring Missouri, you would file a nonresident Missouri return in addition to your usual Kansas return. You'd then take a credit for any taxes you paid to Missouri on your Kansas return."

you may be confused because of so-called "reciprocal agreements" which some states that border one another use.

Thank you for the "TURBOTAX" information...this is where Timothy Geithner screwed up too:

it says in part:

"Most nonresident state filing situations boil down to these three steps:

1. Prepare a return for the nonresident state. You will only report the income and withholdings from that state.

2. Prepare a return for your resident state. You will report all of your income (including income from the nonresident state).

3. Take a credit for taxes paid to the nonresident state on your resident state return so that you won't get double-taxed on the same income.

======================

In Logan's case, Florida I believe he is claiming that Florida is his "Tax Home" resident state and he is a Temporary resident of of Indiana. His Tax Home (resident state) is determined by where he votes, where he intends to permanently reside, where he has his car licensed, things like that. It appears that Logan claimed that Florida is his Tax Home (resident state) and Indiana is his temporary job site (non-resident state). Of course a lot of factors could come into play and there is the issue that he'll probably fight out with the IRS about "Temporary" job site. A lot will depend on other sources of income that he may have from Florida. It is not black/white as you want to make it.

kaitainen wrote:

c) i don't know a lot about estimated taxes, but i don't think that a wage earner can opt out of employer-withholding and make it up with estimated tax payments. i'm not sure about this though..

Sure he can. The only requirement (Federal taxes, I believe most, if not all, States mirror the Federal rule) is that he pays on a quarterly basis, and have paid 90% of the current year taxes owed or 100% of the previous years taxes, whichever is smaller. This is an important distinction, because a person who has a dramatic increase in current year salary is only required to make quarterly payments that that are proportional to 100% of the previous liability.

Setting yourself up for making quarterly payments electronically is easy. Follow this link.

FOXTROT YANKEE wrote:

Thank you for the "TURBOTAX" information...this is where Timothy Geithner screwed up too:

.... It is not black/white as you want to make it.

are you still disputing the basic system of credits? or are you now saying something else? this isn't really that complicated. a non-resident employee pays state taxes based on the location of employment. when lebron james and the miami heat play in chicago, they pay illinois state income tax on the portion of their annual salary earned from that game. as residents of another state, florida, they may get a tax credit against florida taxes for taxes paid to illinois.

same thing for logan.

it is not what you said earlier - which is that a tax credit for taxes paid in florida would apply against liability in illinois (or indiana or whatever).

are you now talking about whether logan is a resident of florida or indiana? it seems he is a resident of florida, and it doesn't much matter to me, or to USATF, if he is. that would impact the tax treatment of income earned outside of indiana, not the tax treatment (by indiana) of income earned within indiana.

malmo wrote:

Sure he can. The only requirement (Federal taxes, I believe most, if not all, States mirror the Federal rule) is that he pays on a quarterly basis, and have paid 90% of the current year taxes owed or 100% of the previous years taxes, whichever is smaller. This is an important distinction, because a person who has a dramatic increase in current year salary is only required to make quarterly payments that that are proportional to 100% of the previous liability.

https://www.eftps.com/eftps/

i'm familiar with how this works for business owners, including partners at professional services firms (and for other non-wage income such as capital gains), but i've never seen it used as the exclusive withholding mechanism for a wage earning employee. i assume you can't opt out of FICA at the federal level either (again, something i've never looked into).

i also don't know how you fill out your W-4 (or state equivalent) without lying, and you have to sign such forms (under penalties of perjury). the federal W-4 says, for example, "Note. You cannot claim exemption from withholding if (a) your income exceeds $950 and includes more than $300 of unearned income (for example, interest and dividends)and (b) another person can claim you as a dependent on his or her tax return." so you'd have to do it by claiming a high number of allowances, presumably falsely if you're trying to completely eliminate withholding.

here is the indiana form (i think):

it says at the end "Penalties are imposed for willingly supplying false information".

as i said before, i personally don't see this as being "cause" for termination, and i'm not sure if his indiana source income was high enough for the indiana dept of revenue to care about him, so this is likely mostly an academic discussion.

Kaitainen, read the entire W-4 instructions.

Line 6 - If you would like an additional amount to be withheld from your wages each pay period, enter the amount on the line provided. NOTE: An entry on this line does not

obligate your employer to withhold the amount. You are still liable for any additional taxes due at the end of the tax year. If the employer does withhold the additional amount,

it should be submitted along with the regular state and county tax withholding.

kaitainen, I concede to you. You are interpreting the law correctly. Of course none of us know what he did, or what he is claiming in terms of "Tax Home", Temporarily Job living expenses, etc. Bottom line, IMO, USATF has opened a stinkin' mess for him and themselves.

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"are you still disputing the basic system of credits? or are you now saying something else? this isn't really that complicated. a non-resident employee pays state taxes based on the location of employment. when lebron james and the miami heat play in chicago, they pay illinois state income tax on the portion of their annual salary earned from that game. as residents of another state, florida, they may get a tax credit against florida taxes for taxes paid to illinois.

same thing for logan.

it is not what you said earlier - which is that a tax credit for taxes paid in florida would apply against liability in illinois (or indiana or whatever).

are you now talking about whether logan is a resident of florida or indiana? it seems he is a resident of florida, and it doesn't much matter to me, or to USATF, if he is. that would impact the tax treatment of income earned outside of indiana, not the tax treatment (by indiana) of income earned within indiana."

Taxman Commeth wrote:

"Cometh"

"A caveat: it’s always dangerous to comment on a breach of contract dispute, without having read through all the terms of the contract."

"USATF is going to lose big time unless there is more than what I have seen so far."

It seems lawyer number one is more lawyerly than lawyer number two.

Taxman Commeth wrote:

Kaitainen, read the entire W-4 instructions.

Line 6 - If you would like an additional amount to be withheld from your wages each pay period, enter the amount on the line provided. NOTE: An entry on this line does not

obligate your employer to withhold the amount. You are still liable for any additional taxes due at the end of the tax year. If the employer does withhold the additional amount,

it should be submitted along with the regular state and county tax withholding.

unless i am missing something (and i may be), it seems like this only applies to "additional" amounts of withholding - and not to reduced amounts of withholding.

so again, looking at someone like logan who is an employee with wage income, i don't see how one can be honest on the W-4 (or the state equivalent) and end up with $0 withholding. (unless of course $0 withholding is the outcome after being honest.)

Interesting talk for people who like to talk about tax codes.

Bottom line , this is between the tax payer and IRS and or state tax board.

Wages can be garnished to pay back owed taxes.

Few corporations fire people for failure to pay taxes as they never know about it as it worked between individual and tax authority.

Company only becomes involved when a request for wage garnishment is requested.

During the week that we celebrate Dr. Kings legacy, I am both ashamed and distressed that USATF's Interim CEO is comfortable referring to Ivan Cropper as Quote - "The Dark Guy" during a staff meeting. So does that mean it is ok for Brooks Johnson - who has been labelled a racist - to call me "the pasty girl"