Because the American kid is American.
Because the American kid is American.
I say this is true for 95% of letsrunners, then the other 5% are either trolls or racists
[quote]my experience wrote:
Doesn't have to be white...the thing is 90% of our good black distance runners are born in africa. Krum was loved, khadavis robinson has a huge fan base. Lopez and Meb have a solid following, but weren't born here so that is always in the back of peoples minds. Khalid and Lagat were born, raised and raced for their previous countries and came here at or just after their peak. The more were can say we developed someone, the more we like them. If they were here 100% of their lives, we love them. If they arrived in HS, we like them a lot, came as a pro some like them and some are indifferent, never ran for american = who cares. Yankees fans don't root for Youkilis, Boston fans don't root for Jeter, regardless of how well they play or how good of people.
But does it really matter in the Future if your the best American runner? If your not at World level, you won't accomplish anything. Does anyone here think Verzbicas can really win the Olympics or something major like that?
There you go. The money is there but nobody will put up the money. Not Phil Knight, Not Geb, not the Kenyan or Ethiopian Government. Even though I think there enough interest in the outer world to recoup the investment. Just saying thats part of the problem. Don't bitch so much about people on this board not recognizing these great runners when they and their country don't even want to be recognized.
Okooo wrote:
You know in Kenya that it takes 6 months to get that kind of money? No one is going to waste 6 months of their money to put up some films. And no one is going to come in and help Kenya because everyone there is poor and the elite runners who have money probably wouldn't even hear about it. $200 might not be a lot to you, but it is a whoolle wholee lot in Kenya.
In my opinion wrote:
How do you know who is better? Without ages, this whole debate about Kenyan vs. American high school kids is meaningless because we don't know how old these juniors are. How do you know that they're so much better? I'm not saying they're not, but you can't claim to have such knowledge when the info isn't even available to you.
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Ok, lets say that your right and the Africans birth dates are off. Basing off the fact that Kipchoge is still running near his prime we can estimate that right now at the highest age he is 28-29. Ok, so that means at the World Championships at his highest age he was 21-22. Do you really think Verzbicas can improve by 1:02 in the 5k in three years? Manage to outkick Bekele and Hicham El Guerrouj? I think not. He might be running 13:15 at the very best by then but if you are a pro 5k runner you know that 23 second difference at that level is gigantic. Plus, even then he couldn't outkick the Africans. So still your points are mostly invalid.
I wasn't arguing that Verzbicas was faster. In fact, I believe the Africans are undoubtedly faster at almost all ages. If they're the fastest in the world now, what would change if they were 16 and we were 16? Nothing, really. Your attempt to invalidate me is pretty pathetic, though, considering we are pretty much in agreement on this issue. I believe they probably would be better, but the poster I was responding to acted like he knew that they would completely blow us away. I just added that without knowledge of ages, saying something like that is meaningless because the juniors that are now blowing us away are currently not juniors. They would still be better, but not by quite as much. Also, I didn't say anything about Verzbicas competing against the Africans, and comparing him to Kipchoge is useless. Basically, all I was saying was that the ages of junior Africans are not known. So, based on your first sentence, you could have just left it there and agreed with me... unless you were going to say something else?
I wasn't arguing that Verzbicas was faster. In fact, I believe the Africans are undoubtedly faster at almost all ages. If they're the fastest in the world now, what would change if they were 16 and we were 16? Nothing, really. Your attempt to invalidate me is pretty pathetic, though, considering we are pretty much in agreement on this issue. I believe they probably would be better, but the poster I was responding to acted like he knew that they would completely blow us away. I just added that without knowledge of ages, saying something like that is meaningless because the juniors that are now blowing us away are currently not juniors. They would still be better, but not by quite as much. Also, I didn't say anything about Verzbicas competing against the Africans, and comparing him to Kipchoge is useless. Basically, all I was saying was that the ages of junior Africans are not known. So, based on your first sentence, you could have just left it there and agreed with me... unless you were going to say something else?
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Sorry, I misunderstood you, but I do disagree with you on the fact that without birth ceritficates you can't compare them. Alot of the African people have parents too, so there ages can't be all that far off.
Can I bring this back to the fact that the real age doesn't matter as much as the training age? As someone else said, alot of these kids are doing 80mpw in the single digit years. I would put a 12 year old who has been running since he was 5 against a 15 year old who has been running for 6 months and double my money 9 times out of 10.
The Real UncleB wrote:
jhsdahf wrote:their age is an estimate that could be anywhere from 18 to 22
.
That must be it. Kenyan junior runners are so good only because they are older than they claim.
And you know this because..? It must be because the Kenyan senior runners are not good. Oh, wait, that's not exactly true, is it. You thus must know this because you have evidence to support your claim. Oh, wait, you don't have that either.
It's common knowledge that Kenyans are frequently older than they are listed at. We freak out when high school kids break 14:20 because it's not done very often while Kenyan "teenagers" racing so fast is a frequent occurrence.
Because 18 in Kenya = 24 in USA?
Because there is basically no drug testing in Kenya, and EPO takes 15-30 seconds off a 5K time?
Morning everyone.
Seriously though guys would you rather watch a video with a bunch of Americans running or something where Africans are running? I mean the Africans look so much better to watch and it's so much more exciting and the commentary is better and the American stuff the guys don't have as smooth form and it's not as exciting and tactical to watch.
So would you rather watch some kids run Cross Country or the NCAAS Championships or watch some real running like the World Championships and Olympic Games?
And you really think Kenyans cheat and Americans don't? How do you think Kenyans manage to get ahold of EPO if they are poor and have never raced before and have no coaches? How are they still managing to run their times without it if all Kenyans "cheat"?
bump
I will start by saying this, I have read none of this thread other then the original post. Here is my opinion.
I was very lucky in my coaching career to have so very good talent around me to make coaching fun. Let me tell you about my best runners
Runner A. 3:36 1500m, 13:40 5k, 1:48 800m
Runner B. 13:40 5k, 28:40 10k
Runner C. 1:48 800m, 3:42 1500m
Runner D. 13:50's 5k
Out of these for which got the most attention by other coaches and around the school?
Runner D he was American. In our country we want to see Americans run fast.
Runner A. had the Olympic A standard and might have been ranked 25th in his country. No one would give him a dime to run. We had to beg to get him into races after college.
Runner D. will end up running for a post collegiate group and when he breaks 2:18 in the marathon everyone on letsrun talks about him.
Americans need to start dreaming bigger
I will start by saying this, I have read none of this thread other then the original post. Here is my opinion.
I was very lucky in my coaching career to have so very good talent around me to make coaching fun. Let me tell you about my best runners
Runner A. 3:36 1500m, 13:40 5k, 1:48 800m
Runner B. 13:40 5k, 28:40 10k
Runner C. 1:48 800m, 3:42 1500m
Runner D. 13:50's 5k
Out of these for which got the most attention by other coaches and around the school?
Runner D he was American. In our country we want to see Americans run fast.
Runner A. had the Olympic A standard and might have been ranked 25th in his country. No one would give him a dime to run. We had to beg to get him into races after college.
Runner D. will end up running for a post collegiate group and when he breaks 2:18 in the marathon everyone on letsrun talks about him.
Americans need to start dreaming bigger
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Exactly, because when Americans run better it's more impressive to Americans.
I'm sure if Americans suddenly became amazing at Distance running again and started destroying the Kenyans and the Kenyan Kids ran times that most people would consider pretty good all the Kenyans would be watching there own kids and not paying attention to Americans like they do now.
That's just the natural order of things and I don't undrstand why everyone on here finds it so hard to comprehend.
Have you been to Kenya? Judging from your post, most likely not!
It is a blatant myth to state that young pre pubertal Kenyans are running 100 miles a week. I have been to Eldoret and Iten twice (both hotbeds for runners) and observed the scene there.
The young kids might run a mile or two to school, but rarely more. And most kids WALK to school - not run. Another thing, most schools (but not all) are within a one mile radius from their homes, so why would these boys have to run more than a few minutes to get there.
Second point....it you go to the village green field in Iten any afternoon or morning, you will see tons of kids playing other sports like soccer, volleyball and even cricket. In fact running is somewhat losing in popularity, even though it is still popular.
The main point I am making is to negate the ridiculous statement that sub 10 year olds are running 100 miles a week, when around 15 miles a week of walking would be closer to the mark, on average. But they have an active lifestyle, because they walk everywhere, before and after school. So if you total their daily activity, it might approach 3 miles per day...with mostly walking and occasional running.
Ghost in Saudi,
, apply today
Have you been to Kenya? Judging from your post, most likely not!
It is a blatant myth to state that young pre pubertal Kenyans are running 100 miles a week. I have been to Eldoret and Iten twice (both hotbeds for runners) and observed the scene there.
The young kids might run a mile or two to school, but rarely more. And most kids WALK to school - not run. Another thing, most schools (but not all) are within a one mile radius from their homes, so why would these boys have to run more than a few minutes to get there.
Second point....it you go to the village green field in Iten any afternoon or morning, you will see tons of kids playing other sports like soccer, volleyball and even cricket. In fact running is somewhat losing in popularity, even though it is still popular.
The main point I am making is to negate the ridiculous statement that sub 10 year olds are running 100 miles a week, when around 15 miles a week of walking would be closer to the mark, on average. But they have an active lifestyle, because they walk everywhere, before and after school. So if you total their daily activity, it might approach 3 miles per day...with mostly walking and occasional running.
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I guess you've never met a truly succesful Kenyan or Ethopian before because Haile G even said he was succesful because he ran 10k to school and 10k back home and Bekel ran that also and some of the best Kenyans ran to school.
Yes, and for every successful Kenyan or Ethiopian who 'ran' to school (more likely a combo of walking and some running if late) the vast majority of successful Kenyans did not run to school.
In fact many of the best Kenyans started running somewhat 'late' at around 17 - 18 years or later.
You have to realize that Kenya takes education very seriously and kids simply do not have the time to run.In fact school hours in Kenya are longer than in the West, with most students spending around 8 hours per day behind school walls, including compulsory 'prep times' (as traditionally instituted by the Brits who colonized Kenya in times gone by).
On Sundays, most Kenyans go to church and spend time with their families in the afternoons, so that is another day, when little or no running is done for most Kenyans. Even world class Kenyans do not run on Sundays in Kenya. That may change when they race Big City Marathons, for the obvious monetary gains.
Only later, if do Kenyans (as adults) have more time to run. That is why you often see a Kenyan marathon runner in the sub. 2.10 category, who started running late, at around age 23 - 24. Because they are healthy and low in weight at that age (most Kenyans develop a pot belly at around age 40), they can quickly improve and become classy runners.
All this business about running to and from school is mostly nonsense as anyone who has ever spent time in Eldoret/Iten or Kapsabat will attest.
Ghost in Saudi.
, apply today
Ghost...
I have met, coached, and been around a lot of kenyans. The best kenyan runners usually stop going to school around 14. They are put in running camps at very young ages. The athletes that come to America and run in college usually are what Kenyans would consider 4th-5th tier runners.
Yes, now and then a Boaz Lanang, a runner who was almost fast enough to get signed by an agent, actually goes to school in Kenya and then comes over. But more often then not the kenyans we see in the NCAA are 4th-5th tier runners in Kenya.
The Kenyans that run in the NCAA usually start running at a later age, hence why they end up here. They weren't focused on running in camps and actually got to finish high school.
There are so many great Kenyan runners that we will never hear of. They get signed by an agent run a race in europe and if they only run "3:37" they get sent back to Kenya never to be heard of again. Most these athletes only get one shot.
Yup, He's never met a succesful Kenyan. Most of them either drop out of school and focus on running or run to school.
[quote]FormerCoach... wrote:
Ghost...
I have met, coached, and been around a lot of kenyans. The best kenyan runners usually stop going to school around 14. They are put in running camps at very young ages. The athletes that come to America and run in college usually are what Kenyans would consider 4th-5th tier runners.
Yes, now and then a Boaz Lanang, a runner who was almost fast enough to get signed by an agent, actually goes to school in Kenya and then comes over. But more often then not the kenyans we see in the NCAA are 4th-5th tier runners in Kenya.
You mean like Henry Rono, Samson Kimombwa, Suleiman Nyambui, Yobes Ondieki, Bernard Lagat and Sam Chelanga?