USATF LIVE Club Cross Country Nationals Thread Here

should have noted the dq im talking about happened 3 or 4 years back, not this year.

i would imagine the rules mostly applie to the singlets matching (brand & color). as for the shorts, i would imagine as long as they're the same color that it's no big deal - seriously, how many guys/girls from each team had on the same exact shorts? based on pictures i've already seen, i've seen some guys with black brooks shorts, some with black nike shorts - same team, obviously no big deal.

i can see the issue with entirely different singlets that aren't even the same color - given that it's suppose to be a "club" championship race, and it's XC, but in the grand scheme of things, there are more important issues than uniforms.

wearing different uniforms isn't going to improve someones performance in anyway, or even a team's overall result.

club teams are just that - a group of runners from the same state or city that are representing that state or city, that's about it.

gsh wrote:

on the dq issue. we had a guy on our team 'dq' for no chip and the official results showed a dq under a uniform rule also - i assume the same rule # again. so perhaps not a uniform issue at all. funny still had a problem, cause this year an official went down every box checking for chips, uniforms and bibs. but there was a time crunch.

Maybe your guy was husband of the gal I stood next to at the start. She was talking on the phone about "he forgot his chip but he's hoping they'll score him anyway".

Props to the McMillan team for adding some elite depth to this race. Add the Oregon track club and Mammoth group in there and this could be a fun race to watch.

nitpicker wrote:

i would imagine the rules mostly applie to the singlets matching (brand & color). as for the shorts, i would imagine as long as they're the same color that it's no big deal - seriously, how many guys/girls from each team had on the same exact shorts? based on pictures i've already seen, i've seen some guys with black brooks shorts, some with black nike shorts - same team, obviously no big deal.

The entire rule is quoted here:

It makes it really clear that nothing else has to match except the singlet. It specifically states that the other parts of the uniform can "vary widely."

The rule also does not state that singlets have to be the same brand, just that they have to be nearly identical in color and style. That can be challenging to do with different brands, but not impossible.

This isn't the high school federation that is going to DQ you for a hairband on your wrist or for having contrasting stitching on your spandex. In fact no one got DQ'd from the race, they just weren't allowed to score points for their team.

OK here is a great gallery with lots of pictures from the men's open race:

http://spear.smugmug.com/Sports/Cross-Country/USATF-Club-XC-Open-Men/

Can someone please point out the two DQ'd guys to me, and their teammates?

I was in Charlotte and racing. In the club nationals the emphasis is on competition among teams. That competition is enhanced by seeing who is on what team. The shirts do that and mostly by color for the racers but spectators and coaches and see the club names. It does matter who is the fifth guy on the team your guys are racing.It helps to have a chance to know that.

In my masters race we ran with our five-year age group pinned to our backs. 60M on my back made me a target for anyone else so designated. Yes, I was furious that there was a 65M ahead of me who I could not catch and I promised myself that if a 70M passed me I would fall on the ground in a temper tantrum.

It does matter that you can see who the other teams are as much as it matters that the masters can see the other age groups and not have to make a judgment based on degrees of grayness.

Or it is good for the quarterback to throw the ball to the player wearing the same color shirt.

Tom

That is interesting but would seeing a certain color uniform or age make you run any faster?

It shouldn't.

There are a lot of athletes sponsored by the same companies out there in the race that have the exact same uniform but are on entirely different teams. Team Indian Elite had pinned their team name on the back of their uniform, just as the age groups were on the backs of the masters runners. Team Indiana Elite embodies the definition of a club team to the utmost.

What seems fairly short sighted to me is the exclusivity of these sponsors. I ran for a Nike sponsored team a few years back and the rep would freak out if we even showed up anywhere with a different label anywhere on our body. I wasn't even paid, I just got free shoes and gear. Do they really pay that good of salaries to demand that you never wear anything else but their stuff? Race car drivers are covered in sponsors. Our sport needs to really look at the possibility of multiple sponsorships like in NASCAR. Obviously our viewership is significantly smaller but the advertising possibilities are there.

Would running behind a rabbit make you run any faster?

It shouldn't.

Of course it does. Same with the uniform. It's also an emotional sport and look at it from a spectator's perspective. It'll charge up the fans to see a runner approaching a rival team.

Well, only running gear companies sponsor runners in this country. You don't see Nascar drivers with seven kinds of motor oil advertised on their car.

The fact is you're not getting "free" stuff, you're getting stuff in exchange for a service. You're a walking (running) billboard. All the companies (not just shoe) are hypersensitive about this, and their "brand" is what they live and breath. Like it or not, the quickest way to lose sponsorship is to show up on the podium or other pictures wearing the competitor's logo.

So exclusivity is the life blood of sponsorship, and it's how the marketing folks build their "brand".

There are numerous cases of multiple sponsors in running, but like in NASCAR you don't ever have competing sponsors for the same team / event. Mobil and a Castrol don't both sponsor the same team. So if VISA is a sponsor of USATF (along with Nike), then MasterCard or AMEX aren't going to be even given the option.

The rule is clear and Robert Chapman who works for USATF and leads Indiana Elite knows it. Haas raced in his New Balance black race kit and the other TIE athletes wore bright yellow Brooks race kits. You can't do that. Haas should have worn a similar colored singlet and they would have been okay. Sara Vaughn (adidas) wore a Nike top (covering up the swoosh with her number) so that the Boulder Running Republic team would all be in the same purple top. While adidas is probably pissed, B Running Repub at least showed respect for the rules.

USATF just wants similar tops on people because while in theory everyone should race just as hard no matter who is in front of you, we all know that in XC if you see a rival singlet in front of you, you race harder to try to beat them because of the scoring opportunities. Think back to HS and how you knew what your rivals were wearing and how that changed your game during the race.

Until USATF changes the rule to allow for the bib numbers (front AND back) to be what identifies your team/club (e.g., what TIE was trying to do with their silly little pieces of paper taped to their backs), then similar tops is a simple requirement and not asking too much.

If you're not allowed to race in another company's gear, why wouldn't you just cover that company's logo on your uniform? It's not like Nike puts 3-foot-long swooshes on their singlets, a little piece of tape should do the trick.

having an entire debate over uniform rules is exactly why running in the US isn't nearly as big as it could be. if you really want the structure of a professional setting for Cross Country, get professional about it.

following common rules of NFL, MLS, and Baseball (or ANY "team" sport). require that team members not only live in same state, but actually train together (to do this they'd have to live somewhat near eachother). I'm sure that most club teams don't have every member doing this, however, I would imagine training together constitutes being a team more than wearing the same uniform does.

THEN, start complaining about uniform issues.

bottom line wrote:

While adidas is probably pissed, B Running Repub at least showed respect for the rules.

There is no way anyone's sponsor should be pissed for following the USATF rules in order to represent a USATF Club Team. Let alone, no way would your sponsor be pissed for wearing a NIKE uniform to represent the USA at the World/Olympic Champs! They should have checked with their sponsors to make sure it was ok (which, if they have a good relationship, their sponsors should be fine with it). Heck, you could wear your club's uniform, but put tape over the logo if that's not your sponsor.

And for the record, I'm sponsored by a different shoe company than my club's uniform, and I followed the rules by wearing my club's uniform.

first of all, dont worry about it. second, the course was short. 6mi was accurate, last .21 was not .21, more like 250-260m.

PA runner. wrote:

second, the course was short. 6mi was accurate, last .21 was not .21, more like 250-260m.

It's cross country, this matters why?