Dathan did not need to change his form, says Brad Hudson

It should be pointed out that Bekele has been injured for a while, so maybe his form isn't the epitome of perfection, or there just isn't such a thing.

skiptoo wrote:

Ritz and Meb at NYC slow-mo video of running form:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtgJtQSHbj8

In that, Ritz is landing on his back foot and his foot is landing out in front of him. His trail leg is going up pretty high, maybe a little higher than Meb's trail leg. Meb's foot is landing closer to directly underneath him. Any videos from early in the race?

3. Coaching is overrated in running. We have top runners with no coach whatsoever.[/quote]

Are you a selfcoach runner, what are your times? Don't tell me, a 17:03/5k on 90 miles a week. Go play kid!!

jjjjjjj wrote:

skiptoo wrote:

Ritz and Meb at NYC slow-mo video of running form:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtgJtQSHbj8

In that, Ritz is landing on his back foot and his foot is landing out in front of him. His trail leg is going up pretty high, maybe a little higher than Meb's trail leg. Meb's foot is landing closer to directly underneath him. Any videos from early in the race?

What I see in Ritz is an overstride with a flat-footed landing. He reaches out with his foot but then pulls it back so that he doesn't heelstrike. Maybe this is the "claw back" form that Salazar wanted? Meb doesn't overstride but he does seem to have a heel-to-toe footplant since he dorsiflexes. It is interesting to compare Meb and Ritz to these other men:

There is also a slo-mo of Flanagan and other women:

If 'elvin314' has any more videos like this I would love to see them.

skiptoo wrote:

Ritz and Meb at NYC slow-mo video of running form:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtgJtQSHbj8

His thumbs really do look flawless.

suburbanxcore wrote:

skiptoo wrote:

Ritz and Meb at NYC slow-mo video of running form:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtgJtQSHbj8

His thumbs really do look flawless.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah! POTD.

towhee wrote:

Whole interview comes off much less incendiary than the two quotes that the OP presents. I don't know why people make such a big deal. Ritz finished 8th, within a minute of previous winners Meb & Marlison Gomes dos Santos. To me that is a very good performance. He didn't win it this time but maybe with some tweaks he can do it next year.

Some of the commentary surrounding ritz has to be 'great white hope' syndrome, IMO. Sure, he should not have said some of the things he did before the race, but that's just human nature.

Exactly right. It amazes me how much people feel the need to worry about Ritz. Let Ritz take care of himself. In my opinion he just didn't show up to the line 100%. If he felt differently beforehand, then he was wrong, I think. We all delude ourselves at times in that regard. Running is full of hard lessons.

They're both planting mid-foot in these videos, the biggest difference is Dathan is taller than Meb.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9PZUkhxfTs&feature=related

Why is everyone so negative towards Brad Hudson. I thought the interview was well done. Brad was very diplomatic with the topics and probably could have taken a different approach. He took the high road. In my experience with coaching, if someone leaves you, it is the athletes choice. If they wish to return, why not take the person back. To me, it would show the value the athlete has on the coach. some would argue that he shouldn't have left in the first place. I know that it is only speculation about Dathan and Hudson getting back together or even Ryan and Sara Hall turning to Brad for new guidance and training approach. Ultimately, I don't think that anyones feelings would hurt....I mean they are adults....not 7 years old on a playground getting upset because there friend won't play with them.

chet wrote:

"Dathan is one of the slowest athletes to ever break 13 minutes," says Hudson.

http://www.roadsmillslaps.com/RML/Hudson_2.html

You are dead wrong. Great coaches are emotionally involved. Name one athlete that has left Alberto that has retained his NIKE deal. You can take it back as far as Annette Peters. It doesn't happen. Alberto is spiteful. Dathan is trapped. He is with a coach that has NEVER coached a marathoner to improvement and many people are starting to realize this. The snake oil doesn't work. No one else can afford Ritz. He can't leave Nike which means that he can't leave Alberto. The poor guy is trapped.

I know for a fact that Ritz has contacted at least one other coach about his future. I don't know how that effects his Nike contract. But I do know that Ritz is checking out other possible options. I am not saying that he will change coaches but he has talked to others.

Dathan needs to slow down the pace and get consistent. That is all.

Checking in wrote:

I know for a fact that Ritz has contacted at least one other coach about his future. I don't know how that effects his Nike contract. But I do know that Ritz is checking out other possible options. I am not saying that he will change coaches but he has talked to others.

Brad? Is that you again?

I agree with this. I also believe that Renato is even exaggerating the small difference that might exist in the foot-plants that Bekele uses in X-C and track. I think Renato is more accurate in explaining Bekele's ability to dominate x-c and track simultaneously with this statement (when he focuses on an athletes physiology, and NOT their mechanics):

"

Another way of describing these physiological differences would be: athletes that are great on hard surfaces are more likely to have more explosive qualities in their legs, to have, as renato put it, very "reactive" feet/legs. Thus, they have excellent stretch/shortening cycles and can immediately transfer energy stored in eccentric contraction into concentric contraction. When landing in mud, this is a bit less important, as the energy stored in landing (eccentric contraction) is a bit diffused. One therefore needs to rely less on a reactive or explosive reaction to the ground, and more on a "grind"-like power, relying on concentric energy. This latter action (running in mud) is more like grinding up a hill on bike than explosive in nature like jumping.

Now of course this is all a bit overstated. These are subtle differences. Geb probably would have excelled at cross if he put his mind to it (and he was certainly no slouch). Tergat was fantastic on grass, mud, track, and roads. Lopes was brilliant on the track, X-C, and roads. Salazar was very good at all three. And look at Ritz ? We were always told cross was his best discipline, yet, his best perforamcnes to date have been on the track (12:56) and roads (3rd 1/2 marathon champs, 60:00).

If you are a great 10k runner, you should be outstanding on all surfaces. There will be small differences in your ability depending on your physiology and preference/focus. But little of these differences will be due to foot strike.

o.O wrote:

They're both planting mid-foot in these videos, the biggest difference is Dathan is taller than Meb.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9PZUkhxfTs&feature=related

In Meb's final strides in the video, I see his heel coming down first. I wouldn't call it bad form because he's not planting with his foot way out in front of his body.

Interestingly, Meb runs with his thumbs up.

someone should help Kim Smith with that form

Why are they obsessed with the marathon. His success at that distance is still purely potential, while he has a 12:56 without training for the 5k all year, and a 60 minute half. How is Ritz not going for the 10k? He's 27 years old. He could race competitively at that distance for another 5 years, but instead he's risking the rest of his career on potential. This is like a miler who decides to run a bunch of mileage and move up to the 5k, is unsuccessful, goes back down for a little while and sets his mile PR, and then decides the 5k is still a better idea..

How does he not run under 27:00 with proper training at this point?

Here is a recent race photo of a "Hudson coached" athlete's form.

Very simple, there's no money in the 10k. How much are you going to earn as a world class 10k guy? You're only going to have two or three good 10k races to enter per year. You're only going to have two marathons per year, also, but the earning potential is a lot higher.