Are all Education majors lazy idiots?

Dude.. stop whining.

Start here: Robert Marzano - "Classroom Instruction That Works"

After that, we'll get into some higher-level stuff. Drop the whimsical reflections on the beauty of a sublime proof. Your students need you to do more than give them assignments. You actually need to teach, bro. Learn how.

This is hilarious. First, I am an education major(Biology) and I can honestly say all of the education majors I know are the hardest working and most diligent of students at our university. For you to call education majors lazy idiots is simply a way for you to make yourself feel better about whatever it is that you do. Example, I am taking a physiology class with a bunch of pre-med and nursing majors as well as education majors. We education majors have by far the highest averages out of the whole class. Makes me feel real great about our healthcare system. Go jack off to your running world magazine.

Chase08 wrote:

This is hilarious. First, I am an education major(Biology) and I can honestly say all of the education majors I know are the hardest working and most diligent of students at our university. For you to call education majors lazy idiots is simply a way for you to make yourself feel better about whatever it is that you do. Example, I am taking a physiology class with a bunch of pre-med and nursing majors as well as education majors. We education majors have by far the highest averages out of the whole class. Makes me feel real great about our healthcare system. Go jack off to your running world magazine.

I seriously doubt that

-med student

Chase08 wrote:

This is hilarious. First, I am an education major(Biology) and I can honestly say all of the education majors I know are the hardest working and most diligent of students at our university. For you to call education majors lazy idiots is simply a way for you to make yourself feel better about whatever it is that you do. Example, I am taking a physiology class with a bunch of pre-med and nursing majors as well as education majors. We education majors have by far the highest averages out of the whole class. Makes me feel real great about our healthcare system. Go jack off to your running world magazine.

At least pick believable lies if you're gonna troll us. Otherwise, no one's gonna bother to bite.

Nothing you said remotely even resembles fact. Education classes/majors are SIGNIFICANTLY easier than most majors, and certainly easier than the hard sciences. I've attended both a small liberal arts school and a large state university, and the one unifying theme among education majors seems to be "like, let's just do the minimum work to get by in college while partying up, ok?"

I know, I even dabbled in education my freshman year of college before realizing what a train wreck of a major it was. I switched to Physiology and now I'm a 4th year medical student.

;lijsaf;lksajfasf wrote:

At least pick believable lies if you're gonna troll us. Otherwise, no one's gonna bother to bite.

Nothing you said remotely even resembles fact. Education classes/majors are SIGNIFICANTLY easier than most majors, and certainly easier than the hard sciences. I've attended both a small liberal arts school and a large state university, and the one unifying theme among education majors seems to be "like, let's just do the minimum work to get by in college while partying up, ok?"

I know, I even dabbled in education my freshman year of college before realizing what a train wreck of a major it was. I switched to Physiology and now I'm a 4th year medical student.

The major may be easier, but the job is much, much harder than those landed by grads with other majors.

Come sit in my class and see how I teach. I've got an undergraduate degree in Education. I'd welcome you to come in. Maybe you can give me some pointers. Bottom line, is it isn't just me who feels like this, it's almost everyone I talk to, across many different institutions.

I'm not perfect, and I'm trying everything I can think of to get through to people. I've taken many hours of professional development, and I spend a lot of time preparing for each lesson trying to find ways to get through to the class.

It comes down to the old adage that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

The students are under-prepared for college. They have been passed along their entire lives without having the expectation that they learn something. When college freshmen get into Calculus and don't know the difference between -2^2 and (-2)^2, they are going to be behind.

The fact is, they are just too lazy to get the remedial help that they need. Instead, they get into the class, slow it down, and clog up the system. They think that they'll just get passed along. They think that it is a waste of their time.

People don't hold themselves accountable enough. When I struggled in a class, I either accepted the grade that I got, or I worked my butt off to improve. I don't go to the prof and complain that there is too much work. I don't shop online through class, and then go to the prof outside of his office hours and ask for extra help. This is the irritating stuff.

To the english guy, I'm sorry that I used "loses" instead of "looses." I was writing my post in haste, and I missed it when I proof read.

To the people trying to help me out, I thank you very much. But believe me, I'm trying everything I can do get through and inspire these people. I just don't know what else I can do. I read books on college teaching, I go to workshops, and I'm trying new things. Still, it's just backfiring.

Discouraged Math Professor wrote:

It would be like if an English teacher had no idea what a poet does.

What makes you think that this isn't the case?

These math/ed majors cringe when I ask them to do a proof. They completely fail to realize that proofs are what make mathematics what it is! We would have nothing in mathematics without proofs. They think a proof is this waste of time. I just don't get it. What's the point in seeing a theorem in a math class if you don't know why it holds?!?!?

How could your students not like proofs? Euclid's proof that there are infinitely many primes is one of the most beautiful things I have ever seen!

As a history teacher, I can remember being required to take communications classes. If you think Education majors are lazy, visit Communication majors classes. Wow.

Let me see, we did speeches. We talked about resumes. We did a group project of a speech. We each wrote a paper on an aspect of Communications. I got an "A" without opening the book, listening too much in class, or even preparing for my speeches. I just wrote them about 3 or 4 hours before each due day.

It was the biggest joke.

At least in my history classes you were required to read 4 or 5 chapters on each text. Come in, and be able to participate on each topic, and even be expected to quote the author or give the ramifications of the event(s)

Listen dude, I know I was harsh. I was making a point about subject knowledge vs. knowledge of pedagogy. It happened to come out directed at you. Hang the heck in there. It's freakin' hard, and it usually isn't about the math (insert subject here).

You're describing the inherent challenge in teaching: motivating kids who don't want to do what you're asking them to. I wish others would understand what you're suggesting - that you can be a math genius, but still struggle with teaching. Two very different skill sets.

But seriously, try as many different approaches as you can. Read like a biotch. Master education like you've mastered math. Read the gurus in math ed (I could tell you the LA gurus, but that'll do you no good), attend conferences, talk to successful profs, etc. You can't bail - on your teaching, or your students.

The Ed. classes may be easy, but the job is close to impossible to perfect. Good luck to you, and hang in there.

new toys wrote:

don't want to do what you're asking them to. I wish others would understand what you're suggesting - that you can be a math genius, but still struggle with teaching. Two very different skill sets.

New Toys - I agree with you 100% that being wicked smaht is not sufficient for good teaching but, and this may be a point of disagreement, I do think being smaht is necessary for good teaching even at grades well below upper high school (which you seemed to imply in an earlier posting). It is this general lack of smarts (and even intellectual curiosity) among students in education that I think the OP and other posters have been addressing. The education field seems to attract students that have weak academic skills. Forget the anecdotal stories in this thread and look at my link earlier for the only hard data I have on this assertion.

The anecdotal story that makes me cringe the most is hearing about elementary school teachers boast how they hate or are terrible at math. I've heard it myself. Most of us have. Can you imagine an elementary school teacher boasting about illiteracy?

At my school the difference between a BS in math and a BA in math was 1 class (diff eq). Everything else was the exact same. If you were an ed major in math, you had to basically get a math degree (most opted to do diff eq)plus the education class (which were easy- A ave no prob). I graduated with 164 credits and yes I passed them all. I got 1 C, in American ethnic woman's literature.

With the exception of that one class I was not lazy- was in national honor society, and was an all academic athlete. The school I teach at has pretty much all math stars. So it pains me to see people generalize all ed majors.

Yes some are lazy, maybe a lot of them, but there are many that work their asses off too. All for a job where everybody hates them, calls them lazy, and will show them absolutely no respect, but will demand that they show their kids respect. See I can generalize too.

You could get a math degree without differential equations? Seriously?

Hey, I get what you are saying Historian. I can see a few really great students in my class, and I've said it all along. I think they will be really great teachers. But it pains me to say that these students are in the minority.

And you know what, I was a Math/Ed major as an undergrad. But I got out of it because I love math, and I love teaching, but I hate babysitting. I want to get in there and teach people some math.

I've been having a few bad days. I'm sorry if I came off overly negative.

I would just really like to see more future teachers actually excited about learning and the subject that they are majoring in.

All I know is I don't want to just lower my expectations.

yes, but it was a BA not a BS. Either way, that was the only difference between the two degrees, every other class was the same. AND as was stated, nearly all went with Diff EQ.

If it makes you feel better, I did have the second highest test average in my calc III class (yes I know goodie for me), the dude that was #3 became a Rhodes Scholar. I did use my 'teaching' abilities to tutor the students going on to be actuaries. I also got a 100% on the place exam. (required test to become a teacher - test is subject based). I only say this because I am of course one of those "idiots" that is part of the "ALL education major".

Haha, I was a math major at a really good school and never took differential equations - the department was all about pure math and I think figured if you took analysis for a full year you could figure that stuff out if you had to. Now I'm working toward my PhD and taking a graduate PDE course, having never done undergrad ODEs or anything. Whatever, computing things is boring.

True, that's ridiculous. In a perfect world, all teachers would be models of intellectual curiosity. In my building, most are. Sure, as in any business, we have a few dolts. The health teacher for one. She can't solve a simple equation, and frequently has horrible grammar errors on her handouts. It's embarrassing. The thing is, she knows her health concepts, and the kids respond to her.

I feel as though I must respond to the commonly held notion that anyone with subject matter expertise can teach. To be so dismissive about the art of teaching, it's... ignorant, to be honest.

So yes, teachers should be smart across the board. Of course. But in the end, if Ms. Jones needs to teach Tommy his sight words and basic reading skills in kindergarten, and she is terrific at it, I honestly don't care if she can't find Somalia on a map, or whether or not she knows what the Quadratic Formula is.

sgh wrote:

yes, but it was a BA not a BS. Either way, that was the only difference between the two degrees, every other class was the same. AND as was stated, nearly all went with Diff EQ.

If it makes you feel better, I did have the second highest test average in my calc III class (yes I know goodie for me), the dude that was #3 became a Rhodes Scholar. I did use my 'teaching' abilities to tutor the students going on to be actuaries. I also got a 100% on the place exam. (required test to become a teacher - test is subject based). I only say this because I am of course one of those "idiots" that is part of the "ALL education major".

I wasn't trying to break balls or anything, just curious.

And for the record, I don't think all education majors are stupid and lazy - no historian worth his salt would make a such a broad and unfounded generalization!

all good- (I can be pretty lazy and use colloquial language). I was mostly addressing the OP, and a few others.

I can admit, that there were a lot of lazy kiddos in my ed classes. They were also the ones out drunk on week nights. The library was so very lonely, so I paid her my visits.

Not all bad though as I met my future wife in my stats class (what are the odds on that).

However, I can say that being smart is not always a great asset as a teacher. Sometimes in can be very hard for me to understand why a student can not grasp a topic.

sgh wrote:

However, I can say that being smart is not always a great asset as a teacher. Sometimes in can be very hard for me to understand why a student can not grasp a topic.

Just again, out of curiosity, have you ever noticed in good teachers an ability to sort of see what mistakes people are making in their thinking? I'm probably not expressing myself entirely clearly, not having entirely thought the idea through, but it seems like I have had some teachers who not only knew the right way to approach a problem, but also understood what the wrong ways were, why they were wrong, why a student might be tempted to make that error, and how to tell a student how to change their faulty thinking so that they approach it in the correct way?