HS State Championship decided by first timing chip to cross. Is this normal?

There is an easy way to fix this. There are now chips avaliable taht are discardable, thin and weigh about as much as a few safety pins. I am assuming they are inexpensive as the road races in which I have used them are not the most professional or high budget/entry fee affairs. Simply have the runners pin one to their singlet. It would unnoticed by the runner, and then would register the torsop crossing the line.

Why has this not been thought of before? Hhy do we even put chips on our shoes?

I ran a 5k where the chip was behind the race bib, so it was the first torso lol

So the NFHS says you need two chips, one on each foot?

Who verifies that the chip on the leading foot registers?

Shouldn't there be two times for each runner wearing two chips??

Shouldn't EVERY finish that is within .1 be video reviewed?

If they are - are the reviewers trying to decide which foot from which runner beat the other foot or are tey now looking at torso? Why are there bib#s front and bck and hip numbers...shouldn't there be numbers on the shoes??!?!?! I think many of these Sate Associations and the NFHS need to be Sh1tCanned!

I hope the Alaskan girl's family files a lawsuit...ERRRRR!

RFID Primer wrote:

It is imbecilic to talk about a bib chip being better. It is the same RFID cloud. And wearing the chip on the chest is absolutely not more accurate than wearing it on the foot. In fact it is worse on the chest as there is more interference there than closer to the antenna.

Primer- You're correct on almost everything you said except for the above. While this may hold true for IPICO, other RFID devices that are not dual frequency have called it slightly better on the chest vs the foot (two chips) on the lynx camera.

Regardless, I do agree that a camera should ALWAYS be used and all runners should wear hips/bibs for Lynx & Identilynx.

What is to prevent a team tactic of having the 6th and 7th runner sprint out and slow down and clog up the course for everyone as much as possible and having their say three fastest runners waiting a couple minutes after the gun and having the course clear for them and have them work together on the course to run a fast time without anyone else on it so they could use all the tangents to the maximum and not have to deal with any traffic?

questionhead wrote:

What is to prevent a team tactic of having the 6th and 7th runner sprint out and slow down and clog up the course for everyone as much as possible and having their say three fastest runners waiting a couple minutes after the gun and having the course clear for them and have them work together on the course to run a fast time without anyone else on it so they could use all the tangents to the maximum and not have to deal with any traffic?

What could you possibly gain from having your faster guys intentionally finish in the back of the pack?

Wow, this was a convoluted and pretty much impossible scenario. To answer the question though: there is no start mat in these type races. Gun triggers the clock, chip stops it.

questionhead wrote:

What is to prevent a team tactic of having the 6th and 7th runner sprint out and slow down and clog up the course for everyone as much as possible and having their say three fastest runners waiting a couple minutes after the gun and having the course clear for them and have them work together on the course to run a fast time without anyone else on it so they could use all the tangents to the maximum and not have to deal with any traffic?

[quote]

I hope the Alaskan girl's family files a lawsuit...ERRRRR!

You sir are a fine example of whats wrong with America.

Even those of us from the land of Palin know whats worth getting excited about and what is really important.

...well sure... Every company is going to claim that their system is better than the other.. Bottom line they are all (rfid) operating in a cloud. I saw one toro chip system pick up 8 feet before and or after the finish line!! Yes, a 16 foot window...Anyway, I think we all agree that the National HS rule needs to be changed.

RFID Primer wrote:

Primer- You're correct on almost everything you said except for the above. While this may hold true for IPICO, other RFID devices that are not dual frequency have called it slightly better on the chest vs the foot (two chips) on the lynx camera.

Regardless, I do agree that a camera should ALWAYS be used and all runners should wear hips/bibs for Lynx & Identilynx.

okay. thanks for the answer. If there was a start mat I could see a coach being a jerk doing something like that. Or have his mid pack runners start a minute later so they wouldn't have to deal with traffic.

akrunner wrote:

[quote]

I hope the Alaskan girl's family files a lawsuit...ERRRRR!

You sir are a fine example of whats wrong with America.

Even those of us from the land of Palin know whats worth getting excited about and what is really important.

Yeah, seeing someone disqualified on a bogus ruling is what is right with America. Why fight for common sense?!?!!

The NFHS Rule is the CHIP is the official time, not the Torso. That is part of the problem. States using Torso as the rule but use chip timing could open themselves up to protests as this is against the rules.

I see slides and drop kicks at the finish of this year's state meet!

rundanrun220 wrote:

In Illinois, we have been using 4 mats for the finish line timing, with instructions to the runners to run hard past all 4 mats. Not sure what happens if the first mat picks up one chip, and the 4th one picks up someone else's chip, despite what order the runners physically crossed the imaginary finish line?

They used four mats because the system doesn't work well.

They used a lot of redundancy to try and time everyone. Still, chronotrack fails.

The d-tag is a big joke except for fun runs and the like where no one cares.

The actual read rate on those with a single mat is just a little over 80 percent.

With multiple mats, the results take forever because they have to "fudge" the results manually placing those from the other mats and with their hand-timing that tries to catch all the finishers they miss.

BadAssMoFo wrote:

Finally, chips on the bib are getting closer BUT still not as accurate as an FAT verification and may never be in our life time. Therefore having NFHS adjust their chip rule to coincide with NCAA/USATF/IAAF makes more sense.

ALSO, disposable chips cost more. An additional couple of thousand dollars for a meet director (in addition to the normal service fee) is alot of money.

Wrong. Look at the Jaguar timing systems which use RFID.

Chips cost 65 cents and accuracy is amazing.

"Wrong. Look at the Jaguar timing systems which use RFID.

Chips cost 65 cents and accuracy is amazing"

------(this must be written by someone from Jaquar)

What a crock !!! - Jaguar is very nearly the worst system out there - and the results accuracy is far from "amazing"

RFID Primer wrote:

"Wrong. Look at the Jaguar timing systems which use RFID.

Chips cost 65 cents and accuracy is amazing"

------(this must be written by someone from Jaquar)

What a crock !!! - Jaguar is very nearly the worst system out there - and the results accuracy is far from "amazing"

And your proof is...what, exactly?

They use four mats in case something should go wrong, but I have never known them to have to use anything other then the first mat. Results at the state meet are nearly instantaneous, the only delay is usually to review the video to confirm the results. They also have a single mat at the mile, mile and a half, and two mile marks which produces real time splits and team results which are announced while the meet is going on.

In high school I was on the losing end from a more logical system. My junior year I crossed the line at the state meet even with two other guys. My chip crossed first, and the clock at the finish line initially displayed myself first (of the three, not in the race), but in the official results I was third because they did a better job of leaning. Definitely a more fair system than what the alaska kids had to put up with.

Having worked the Illinois State Meet multiple years, I can attest to the system working very well - so well, they can provide current team results while the race is in progress. They use an IPICO system.