Seb coe avoids long runs???

Not an American

Not an American wrote:

Not an American

he's white though so it's good

The only poster on LR who has actually seen Seb´s logs first hand is Marius Bakken, and he says that the truth falls somewhere between the version Coe gave during his career and the version he has told afterwards.

My group runs 1hr45min to 2hr20min every Sunday, we have guys and girls running anything from 23km's to 36km's. In the 5 years i've been with the group i don't recall anyone ever stopping for a drink. When one guy was caught taking a gel, he was ridiculed for being a wannabe triathlete. We get pretty good results, i think your body becomes conditioned fairly quickly.

The Europeans in England are part Mongol due to Atilla The Hun who came from Central Asia and conquered Western Europe in 300AD.

Unless it's really hot and dry, you can always run long runs without drinking during, and even for 4 1/2 hours before, without dehydration affecting performance or health. Where did Seb train? In England? Not exactly the Sahara.

Long runs don't develop strength or speed; they develop endurance.

The running times article is flawed, and based on research done by the Gatorade Sports Science Institute. Your body doesn't regulate weight loss during runs -- this should never be the "overall goal", unless you are a Gatorade shareholder. The body regulates the osmolality of the blood, and lets you know when it's getting out of balance, by making you thirsty. You'll first feel a dryness in your throat. If you are healthy, it's never too late to wait until you are thirsty before drinking, even during intense efforts in the heat.

'If this session with Tim Hutchings was so good then why didn't he prove it but running a reasonable 5K apart from the 14 minutes.'

People move up because they lack speed - he didn't need to move up. A lot of the guys who moved up with success - EL G, Lagat but never ran a decent 800m. It's horses for courses. A lot of runners nowadays just do the 800m or 1500m and don't even try to do the classic middle distance double

One the long runs you don't have to drink in training because you are not going flat out. Plus if your performace does deteriorate a bit its just training. He's not going to be running 20 mile long runs every week because he was an 800m/1500m runner

His mileage was more than reported, but he was running a lot less miles like a runner like Ovett. Incidentally the Ovett training I've seen had 2 10 milers (in under 60 minutes) run every week - even he was not doing 20 milers

He's not American. Bar him from the USA. And don't touch anything he's touched. Seb is known for...

"The only poster on LR who has actually seen Seb´s logs"

Are you certain? the only poster?

Keith may not have seen the logs but he is extremely knowledgeable and well respected.

In his book profiling top runners, "Best Efforts", Kenny Moore describes a 15-mile run with Coe in terrible weather where Coe drills Moore badly, and Moore was 4th in the Munich Games marathon.

I don't know why Coe had problems with stomach cramps drinking water within 4 1/2 hours of running. I often drink water a few minutes before a race, and I don't feel water 'sloshing about' in my stomach.

The following book gives all the details on Coe's Training: "Better Training for Distance Runners - 2nd Edition" by David Martin and Peter Coe (Seb's Father).

Sillitoe wrote:

The following book gives all the details on Coe's Training: "Better Training for Distance Runners - 2nd Edition" by David Martin and Peter Coe (Seb's Father).

I think that every one (who is remotely interested) has read this book (or at least parts of it), and it doesn't say anything concrete about what Coe actually did as a Senior athlete - just what he is supposed to have done (in two snippets) as a Junior age athlete.

Lot's of theory, but little practical application from a "Training diary" perspective.

From the research I have read on this...

Being dehydrated will hardly decrease your performance. However, it will greatly hurt your recovery.

You can get away with it every now and then, but you are best to not mess with it if you are on a regular, high-intensity training plan.

Canadeh wrote:

Sillitoe wrote:

The following book gives all the details on Coe's Training: "Better Training for Distance Runners - 2nd Edition" by David Martin and Peter Coe (Seb's Father).

I think that every one (who is remotely interested) has read this book (or at least parts of it), and it doesn't say anything concrete about what Coe actually did as a Senior athlete - just what he is supposed to have done (in two snippets) as a Junior age athlete.

Lot's of theory, but little practical application from a "Training diary" perspective.

It has a very detailed description of his training leading up to the 1984 Oly´s.

That book is a horrible overall picture of Coe's training. That said, I have used the latter ('84 Games) schedule to help with sharpening for major races (while keeping in mind that the warm-up/warm-down miles as well as A.M. runs were strategically omitted in order to under-represent overall mileage.

well. wrote:

Canadeh wrote:

I think that every one (who is remotely interested) has read this book (or at least parts of it), and it doesn't say anything concrete about what Coe actually did as a Senior athlete - just what he is supposed to have done (in two snippets) as a Junior age athlete.

Lot's of theory, but little practical application from a "Training diary" perspective.

It has a very detailed description of his training leading up to the 1984 Oly´s.

Umm! No, the rest isn't all correct. You also said, "nor ran a race over 2000m on the track". That's the second incorrect comment you made.

And there's another inaccurate response. You say races (plural) at school. I mentioned ONE race when he was a junior. The others were all senior races.

Because he was an 800 & 1500m runner and only used longer races to give him an indication how his winter training had gone. Why did he need to go out and run a reasonable 5000m? To satisfy you!? I'm sure he did enough in training to know he could run a reasonable 5k whenever he wanted, as backed up by comments made by Chief UK distance coach, Frank Horwill at the time. I'd rather go with his first hand account than yours, thanks.

Lol! Well Americans may not have heard it, but those who follow the sport in Europe are quite aware of it. The fact it's been won by the likes of Ngugi, Paul Tergat, Tanui, Cova, Panetta, Ovett, etc, shows just how insignificant it is.

I did not try to prove anything. I made that comparison with Ovett to underline the fact that Coe was worth much faster than 14:06 for 5000m. I have made no claims to him being as good as any of the elite at the time. The only claim I have made at all in this thread is that 14:06 is not a reflection of his ability at any time from 78 to 89. I have no idea what the conditions were like for the Vigevano races. The first 3 were over the same course. Then it was reduced when Coe won in 83.

The link you gave shows that the 84 and 85 races were both "apparently" 7.5 km. Well Cova won in 84 in 25:04 and Ovett in 20:07! Are you really telling me they were both the same course? Is Ovett (as great as he was) really going to run almost 5 mins faster than the World & Olympic 10k champion? I think not.

He ran one X Country race in 1972 at 15, then didn't run another until 1978. That hardly reinforces your suggestion that he ran X- country until Ovett came along. You don't think he could find a race where Ovett wasn't running!? Lol. As teens Ovett was a 400/800m runner while Coe was a 1500/3000m runner. So if anything Coe was the one with a background in longer distances.

21st place in the 5 Hills X- country. That was 9.5km running through plowed fields and up and down steps. What baring does that have on his ability to run faster than 14 mins for 5000m on the track?

Here's an extract from an article on the race: -

"Curious about Coe's thoughts, the visitor arranged to meet him in mid-March in San Vittore Olona, Italy, at a strange cross-country race called, innocuously enough, the Cinque Mulini (five mills). The route required the runners to scramble across plowed fields, through barnyards, flour mills, up and down steps, past barking dogs, through dark rooms.

"It's not dangerous, it's fun," said Norway's Grete Waitz, who would win the women's race easily. Coe's impression differed slightly.

"There's been a horrible mistake," he said. "I was told it was flat, fast and grass." He planned to run with one thing in mind, his safety."

From: -

He ran several races for his club in Spring relays in 84, 85, 88 & 89. They were usually around 3 miles. That's a lot more than he ran X- country.

If you're definition of "big races" means Championship ones, then no. He used 400m to work on his speed and 3000m to work on his endurance. Why? Because he was an 800/1500m runner. I would think that was quite obvious. Ovett moved up to 5000m in 86 because he no longer had the speed to match the best over 800 & 1500m. That's why most athletes move up. Coe didn't need to do this; he had the speed to rank No. 1 in 86 at 800m and was still up there with the best in 89.

If you read his biography he explains why he didn't move up to 5000m. He also found it boring. But for whatever reason you chose to believe why he didn't move up seriously to 5000m, the idea that he was only capable, even as a 1500m runner, of being at best a 14:06 athlete, is beneath your obvious knowledge and understanding of the sport.

Keith wrote an awesome book, Healthy Intelligent Training.

He is not an American, but a Kiwi-gone-Aussie.

Google the book.

Now I am slow in comparison to Keith and his subjects and probably most people here, but I can run 3 hours steady every week - each time having nothing more than a cup of tea before I go.

When I used to hydrate and Gu up, I was no better or worse than I am now.

You have 24 hours to drink, why do it on a run? (with the exception of maybe going much longer than normal in the heat).

Wetcoast wrote:

Keith wrote an awesome book, Healthy Intelligent Training.

How do you know ? Someone like you that does poor training understand, less training understand than the writer of the book, you think you may comment about the book he wrote. No way. It’s like to ask one boy that his confine of mathematics is to sum, subtract, multiply and divide to comment a big equation.

You don’t got credentials to comment on training literature. Your credentials don’t go out of interviewing. Your questions that the other answers.

On this tread the original question is about Coe long runs and drink.Don’t you realize that Coe was in the level of the world’s best. Every similarity with Coe or other top class runner and you is pure coincidence.

You…what are your performances as a runner ? Do you want to contribute to the question of what to drink in long runs with your personal experience ? Who do you think you are ? It’s inappropriate.

What really matters that you do long runs, that you drink, that you don’t drink ? I imagine that from now the top runners will drink only one cup of tea and go on.

Please. Try impersonalized and good comments.