Aghast wrote:
I feel sorry for bitter people like you who are slaves to some running calculator. There is no way even if he is past his prime that he will go from 2:08 at Boston to 2:15 at Chicago in less then a year. You are very naive. It is impossible.
He is naive?
No. He is a troll.
And you are the one who is very naive to not recognize it.
Get a clue man wrote:
He is naive?
No. He is a troll.
And you are the one who is very naive to not recognize it.
...equally trolled.
oh but the trolls on youuuuuuu wrote:
Get a clue man wrote:He is naive?
No. He is a troll.
And you are the one who is very naive to not recognize it.
...equally trolled.
And now you (but the trolls on youuuuuuu) have been trolled. Nice try though.
And as for me - I am a superpower. I cannot be trolled. So don't bother trying again.
Yeah, but if you COULD be trolled then you WOULD have been right now so that is ALMOST as bad!
Ryan Hall has to stop TRAINING so much and stick to PRAYING. Obviously that's what helps.
Rickey Henderson wrote:
Ryan Hall has to stop TRAINING so much and stick to PRAYING. Obviously that's what helps.
I'd getting fed up with that crap.
Tike wrote:
Does he even enjoy the thing deeply in himself???
Umm..
www.666energy.com wrote:
I will never forget my first run after drinking my own concoction. I was in NYC Central Park, and I was flying. One of the best runs I had the whole year. I only drank 2 bottles. I really look forward to my next marathon when I can drink it during the race.
"But it's sterile and I like the taste......"
stuck with match.com wrote:
agreed the celebration was horrible and uncalled for. thats karma comin back at him.
I hate hall as much as the next guy. He's aggravatingly obnoxious, smug, and comes across as aggressively obtuse, particularly when he's doing his god stuff. His celebration didn't seem that ridiculous to me though. I think you might be a little out of touch here.
NoFatty wrote:
I hate hall as much as the next guy. He's aggravatingly obnoxious, smug, and comes across as aggressively obtuse, particularly when he's doing his god stuff. His celebration didn't seem that ridiculous to me though. I think you might be a little out of touch here.
Wow, hate is a strong word. I surely don't see Hall in the same light you just cast him in. That said, Hall will return to the track in 2012 for the trials, AFTER he misses the marathon team. Too many hard efforts on courses like Boston that beat up the legs. The only way he turns it around is by not running Chicago, getting on the track next year to get a time fast enough to qualify for the trials, and not running another marathon before the trials.
Agreed. The celebration was legit. New AR...good for him and let him celebrate. I would!Plus, I predict a 2:06 high on 10/10/10. No way he blows a 2:15.
NoFatty wrote:
stuck with match.com wrote:agreed the celebration was horrible and uncalled for. thats karma comin back at him.
I hate hall as much as the next guy. He's aggravatingly obnoxious, smug, and comes across as aggressively obtuse, particularly when he's doing his god stuff. His celebration didn't seem that ridiculous to me though. I think you might be a little out of touch here.
Sagarin wrote:
Wow, hate is a strong word. I surely don't see Hall in the same light you just cast him in. That said, Hall will return to the track in 2012 for the trials, AFTER he misses the marathon team. Too many hard efforts on courses like Boston that beat up the legs. The only way he turns it around is by not running Chicago, getting on the track next year to get a time fast enough to qualify for the trials, and not running another marathon before the trials.
Sagarin - you have proven to be rather astute about many topics here on these boards. So, when you post something, I tend to think it is well thought out.
Honest question - do you really think Hall is not going to qualify for the Olympic marathon team? Or are you just joking? He has been the top US marathoner for several years. Further, his last big effort (Boston 2010) was an excellent race, one of Hall's best, and clearly better than any American (save Meb) is capable of at this time.
Yet Hall should not be running Chicago? Will not be in the top 3 for the US in 2012?
I don't know. That thought seems so extreme it seems like you must be trolling. Yet your tone comes across as honest. Maybe your trolling is just more subtle than most. Or maybe I'm just missing something obvious.
Aghast wrote:
I feel sorry for bitter people like you who are slaves to some running calculator. There is no way even if he is past his prime that he will go from 2:08 at Boston to 2:15 at Chicago in less then a year. You are very naive. It is impossible.
stuck with match.com wrote:you're the naive one for thinking its impossible for him to run a 2:15. why is that so hard to cope with? 63:55 = 2:15, OMG big shock that i said he could run a 2:15. The point is he is past his peak. there is not a chance in hell that he can even run 2:08 much less 2:06
He went from splitting 64:00 for a half at Boston to running 63:55 all out half in a few months. Why would it be naive to assume he's not in as good as shape as he once was?
Just Wondering Again wrote:
Sagarin - you have proven to be rather astute about many topics here on these boards. So, when you post something, I tend to think it is well thought out.
Honest question - do you really think Hall is not going to qualify for the Olympic marathon team? Or are you just joking? He has been the top US marathoner for several years. Further, his last big effort (Boston 2010) was an excellent race, one of Hall's best, and clearly better than any American (save Meb) is capable of at this time.
Yet Hall should not be running Chicago? Will not be in the top 3 for the US in 2012?
I don't know. That thought seems so extreme it seems like you must be trolling. Yet your tone comes across as honest. Maybe your trolling is just more subtle than most. Or maybe I'm just missing something obvious.
I'm trying to be somewhat evocative, acknowledging that there is a physiological limit as to the number of hard marathons in the legs. Noakes, et al, have pointed this out, where staleness is the end result. Now, the fact that Hall races so infrequently may be to his advantage, but he has run many hard marathons already and on courses like Boston, which beat up the legs.
So, I think there is a very good chance that he "shockingly" misses the 2012 marathon team and lines it up on the track as a result. Having said that, I'm not sure who takes his place, because Hall might just muddle through as a 2:09ish marathoner. I do not think he will run as slow as 2:15 in Chicago; nor do I think he will go faster than 2:08-2:09. Of course I could be wrong. Perhaps he had an off day yesterday or was merely training through, despite his comments.
sagarin, I don't seem him missing out on the Olympic team in the marathon, because he'll still be worth 2:09/2:10, Meb and Abdi are getting up there, and while Ritz will be in the race, I don't think that Rupp will be. Gotcher and Vega will be a couple of the other threats to qualify. I would really doubt that a 2:10 wouldn't qualify for the team.
However, I still wonder why he can't understand that it is the connection with his track speed that brought him to sub 1 hr and 2:06. This may have just been marathon pace, with Chicago coming up in 3 weeks, but he almost never races and his results have been very much subpar for him. Boston was a good time, but still 2:24 off his pr. If he wants to continue to be good on the American level and competitive for top five at major marathons, good for him, but I thought once that he was more ambitious than that. Knock out a sub 13/sub 27 on the track next year, and then we'll see what he can do back at marathon. Year after year, we say this, year after year, he claims to be heading back to the track in the summer, and year after year, he skips out. Is he afraid of racing?
Hi, I have been following this discussion for a while. Now I want to give my 50 cents. You guys shouldn´t kick Ryan Hall after a preparation race where he fails to produce a great time. We don´t even know whether he trained right through and had a game plan with his coach to try out something different. He had won Philadelphia last year with much more time left to prepare for New York. Now he is closer and sure everybody would have liked to see a great effort and a time close to 60, maybe himself included.
I bet he´ll be running Chicago very hard just to shut up many doubters. Besides, what do you guys want. That he beats Hailes WR? I think the US long distance runners have made huge steps ahead in the last five years. Remember where long distance running was 10 years ago. To guys like Meb Keflezighi and Ryan Hall you owe it that you even have something to discuss where there was nothing left to say back then.
Back then and now a couple of US runners have to fight the huge wave of Kenyan and Ethiopian with ever changing faces. Fresh blood is coming in every year and that what makes it so difficult. If in Kenya somebody doesn´t run at World Class level he quickly gets replaced by somebody whose name the year before may not even have been to insiders. Thinking about Marathon really the only one who has a shot at fast races like Chicago or London to be in the TOP FIVE are runners like oh let me guess Ryan Hall.
So guys, wait and see what he is able to do in a big race like Chicago. Probably he did himself a huge favor. Certainly after this bad halfmarathon in Philadelphia nobody expects him to run a great race or even be the favorite. Maybe that is exactly what he and his coach wanted. Not to be asked when are you going to win your first Big Major Marathon each and every time again.
Hope God doesn't feel the same way about you. It wouldn"t be good.
god spoke this morning wrote:
"I am fed up with Ryan Hall and that is why he is running poorly -- all that BS about God and all makes me sick."
crazygerman wrote:
Hope God doesn't feel the same way about you. It wouldn"t be good.
god spoke this morning wrote:"I am fed up with Ryan Hall and that is why he is running poorly -- all that BS about God and all makes me sick."
No, because when I'm really God then I don't need to say all that crazy crap.
Really? There are lots of great marathoners that run their PR's in the 30's. He's laid a couple of eggs here and there, and had a couple of down years. What do you expect, marathon PRs or even equalling them every year? Plateauing then having a mediocre year or two while logging high mileage, maybe working through an injury or illness, then storming back when the benefits of all that slogging are present...it's a pretty common story at that level.
Webb was "done". Ritz was "done". Rupp was "plateaued". German Fernandez is supposedly "done".
When will you people learn that long-distance running requires time and patience? If you train yourself like you judge our athletes, losing sight of the bigger picture, you will always be performing below your potential.
rojo wrote:
fitness wrote:He had his 59:43 3 years ago (age 24), and his 2:06 2 years ago (age 25). I'm not knocking ANY of his performances, but it must be said...he is not the great white american hope that everyone thought he would be. I can't see him actually "competing" with any of the top tier guys with times like: 2:12:33, 2:09:40, 2:08:41, that he has put up. Great times, but nowhere near 2:03/2:04.
His 63:55 only reinforces the fact that his frail body is aging and can't keep up with his age 23/24 year old body. He might put out another 2:05.high/2:06 within a year or two (at most) but I can't see him going under 60:00 again or running a 13:10 5km. In my book he is done.
One question for you. Haile G is at least 37 (many think he's over 40). It's a fact that he broke 13:00 16 years ago in 1994. Age hasn't slowed him.
Hall is by no means done at 27. I certainly agree with you that today's performance was very disappointing but the fact of the matter is he's by far the best American born athlete currently in terms of proven marathon performance.
As a coach, I find his bombs in the half marathon to be very confusing.
But let's wait and see what happens in Chicago.
Perspective is important in this sport. Everyone gets excited about Solinsky when he finishes 6th, 7th, 5th and 3rd in Europe. Well Hall was 4th in the Boston marathon this spring.
Keeping in mind that my original post was half made to troll...
I do however believe that Haile G is a special case due to his huge aerobic base and physical makeup. I can't name more than one or two (male & white) athletes that have "competed" over the age of 34 or 35. It's entirely possible that Ryan Hall will be able to compete in his mid thirties, I just don't think it will happen.
As someone who prides himself on consistent seasonal improvements, I find some of his recent half marathons mildly disturbing.
Of course if we take a look at Brett Gotcher and see that he ran 1:05:43 (half marathon) on Birmingham Oct 11th. 2009, only to run a 2:10:36 in Houston, TX on Jan 17th. 2010 - we can determine that the half and the full are completely different beasts. His 13.1 split was faster than his 65:43. However Ryan Hall doesn't have 3 months, his marathon is in 3 weeks...so it'll be interesting to see how he performs in Chicago.
Given everything, the amount of time he has before his marathon, I put him at a solid 2:06.high given the fast and flat chicago course.