Cummins comments are disgraceful to say the least and she should be fine for her comments, for unsportsmanlike conduct. A very sore lose indeed. Caster has met all the requirements to compete as a female athlete, so what'the problem - you jealous lot! Cummins: if you can't take the heat, stay out the kitchen! Hang your spikes up and remove yourself from Athletics, you Bigot!
women need to unite and boycott the 800m.
on another note, it's funny how nobody made a stink about ana guevara competing against women in the 400m.
ana wasn't even an "intersex" person, he was a straight up dude; how could everybody have missed that?
PlanetHarris wrote:
Cummins comments are disgraceful to say the least and she should be fine for her comments, for unsportsmanlike conduct. A very sore lose indeed. Caster has met all the requirements to compete as a female athlete, so what'the problem - you jealous lot! Cummins: if you can't take the heat, stay out the kitchen! Hang your spikes up and remove yourself from Athletics, you Bigot!
Um, I am talking about her talent! If she runs at her potential which I believe is 1min53 second something.... Then its like running against a man because that's what some guys who are competing in college (in Canada anyway) are running. Fine those guys might not be winning but they train hard and compete hard and are way better than all females... Get it.
And trust me if I was not sportsman like I would not have agreed to race her. I am outspoken by nature and have a right to speak my mind. I am actually not upset that she is competing I like her a lot and of all the girls I am the only one who seems talk to her.
I have a problem with the system. If she is indeed or ever was over the limit initially (the test that Athletics South Africa kept a secret), and she is a female then the tests need to be revamped/updated so this does not happen again.
I believe one can't help how they are born. I believe C S is much too much a man to run with us women in a women's race. I wish the women would have just started the race in order to get paid and then just stopped in protest. But in reality that would take away a chance of them getting in a world class race. I just would not run against C S unless it is a mixed sex race. I'm mad at Athletics South Africa too.
I believe the reports of C S having male parts and no ovaries and no womb. If the person cannot reproduce like a female and has male parts as such like C S then I believe the person to be more male. C S is someone I call intersexed-male rather than intersexed-female.
“It’s obviously a human rights issue, but human rights affect everyone in the race, not just one person,” Simpson said. “And for the rest of the field, it gets ignored.”
Really, this is a human rights issue. NO, this is a friggin' race. It's sport. Sure, it's a job and there is money involved, but a human rights issue.
A human rights issue is infants being involved in sex trade. Human rights issues are when one tribe commits genocide against another. Human rights issues, hell, maybe even is the right to health care coverage (not really), but at least those involve life/death/quality of life issues.
These women just need to chill out and train harder. Kind of like when Tiger turned pro and he was fit and athletic and most of them were fat and unathletic.
Crikey, is that you?
Missed seeing you at Icahntis year.
Tom w/ beard
"Lisa, if the Bible has taught us nothing else - and it hasn't - it's that girls should stick to girls sports, such as hot oil wrestling and foxy boxing and such and such."
"She" fails the test---could not foxy box
What a joke wrote:
Semenya will run as fast as necessary to win races. To blow away the field would only cause outrage and reinforce the unfair advantage a hermaphrodite has over the female competitors. The coaches and agents are downplaying what this athlete is capable of.
This seemed to summarize it well.
stranger wrote:
The IAAF has classified her as a woman after numerous test - There are a quite a couple of woman competing on the circuit who could be confused for men so why is she treated any different from them..
Why did it take them a year to do so? Why were the results kept secret? That's makes no sense unless something is "wrong"... And why was SA's reaction to the internal testes leak to criticise the IAAF because the information got out rather than to deny it?
In fairness to women, they may have to refuse to run with 'her' to get this reviewed. Caster is not a woman, he/she is a mix thus, not a woman. fair is not fair in the races Caster competes in.
PlanetHarris wrote:
Cummins comments are disgraceful to say the least and she should be fine for her comments, for unsportsmanlike conduct. A very sore lose indeed. Caster has met all the requirements to compete as a female athlete, so what'the problem - you jealous lot! Cummins: if you can't take the heat, stay out the kitchen! Hang your spikes up and remove yourself from Athletics, you Bigot!
The women athletes in the field showed a lot of class by not boycotting this event. They are not sore losers.
And who says Semenya has met "all" the requirements. As far as the public is concerned she has met none of the requirements. The jury is still out on her actual male/female status.
www.fund-king.com wrote:
rsbones wrote:Then there is another division for women only. I figure, to be in that division, one needs to be 100% female, otherwise, compete in the open division.
then NOBODY would be allowed to compete in the women's division....
What does "100% female" mean?
There is a reason the IAAF cannot form a policy on this issue. There is no binary answer to this question.
It is amazing how it upsets the high school boys on this board, tho...
Not having male sexual organs producing male sexual hormones would be a non-arbitrary and logical distinction given that the main reason for male athletic superiority is androgens which is the basis for the seperate category for women. Chicks can't compete with dudes for biological reasons and we have decided to therefore let women compete against each other, not men. If the reason for the separation is due to biological differences than the distinction also needs to be 100% grounded in biology, not sociology. Caster having a vagina and viewing herself as female shouldn't be relevant at all. Letting men with hypogonadism race vs women would probably make slightly more sense than letting CS do so...
You know, Im amazed at the injustice this gal is receiving just because you dont like the way she looks, or that she dominates her sport. Why? because she's different?! She has been scrutinized ever since she won Gold. She has undergone more testing than any female athlete in the last 18 months than all those other women put together. Having to prove she doesnt have a penis. How pathetic! Every once in a while, an athlete shows up on the scene who totally dominates. This is her moment. Her time. Just like Usain Bolt dominates his sport. D-O-M-I-N-A-T-E-S ! like no other EVER IN HISTORY! I dont see anyone calling him a cheat! why not! because he looks like a dominate sprinter? This gal has had to work twice as hard as anyone else to get where she's at and for that, you critisize her for it. Take it for what it is...a once in a lifetime prodogy that has come along and is way ahead of the rest of her peers...and that whole "making a mockery" because she chose to stay in the middle? god that is such a pathetic comment! clearly she paced herself, waited for the right time to make her move, tried to pass inside- the lane was closed so she went to the outside to win the race. Wheather you agree or not, she is the best in the world! hands down! You go girl!
If CS is the best in the world then let her race against the men.
CS dominates against females because CS is part male and has a biological advantage. That is an outrage against every woman CS competes against.
No one bitches about Bolt because he is racing against his gender
If CS wants to compete against women then they should remove CS's testicles.
I run at a school which is very accepting of all genders and generally considers itself a foe of the gender binary. I'm completely in agreement with them about most things, but I can't stand it when they talk about Castor. Many of the most vocal supporters of Castor (that I know) do not participate in athletics in any form. They are mainly interested in the human rights questions raised by the controversy.
When I say to them that Castor competing as "female" does not do justice to the rest of the field, they cannot accept the fact that women have markedly different times in short distance (e.g. Track). Many are under the impression that biological sex has no effect on performance. Yes, it is always hurtful to slander someone who has little (probably none in her case, but who knows) control over their gender, but it is not fair to those who do identify as women and do not have the benefit of male hormones. That would be doping. Yes, we have created a bizzare little world with artificially narrow creteria for gender, but without it women's atheletics will continue to have wildly, and often unfairly, inflated times for world leaders.
The solution? There isn't a good one, but we should really push for an open division. Claiming a binary is dangerous, but if we are to stick with it we must be rigorous in keeping consistent and fair standards for competition.
For heavens sake - use your blinking eyes!
Can’t you tell the difference between a real female and a…what?
As you seem a bit confused - the real female is the blond girl.
Running against that creature must feel like for the women as the men would if they were lining up against Steve Austin - the Bionic Man.
Nobody knows the facts of Caster's case, either back last fall or currently. We will likely never know these facts because of confidentiality. We don't know it about other athletes either.
Nobody knows the process. The IAAF has no published standards for sex. The rumor is that they have pushed other "borderline" females into a quiet retirement. At the most recent Exe. Committee meeting they formed a working group to develop and submit standards. I think this is a positive move forward. Hard to see how they could ban anybody without any standard in place.
MNG wrote:
They said she received a large ovation at the meet. Whats wrong with the spectators?!?! They're so happy to see a man run amongst women? What is there logic ????
Obviously, the crowd is a bit ignorant as to the injustice that is happening to every female athlete that competes against Semenya
I suspect they would not be inclined to give a large ovation to Semenya if they were female 800 meter runners and were in that race. Or perhaps they had a friend, family member or loved one who had to compete against a hermaphrodite.
kaitainen wrote:
so the line for you is testicles (would one testicle do it?). does that mean that your line must be the one adopted? why? would most people around the world, when confronted with a human being with a vagina and no penis, say that the person in question is male? or not female?
i'm not even saying i disagree with your drawing of the line. i just don't know why it must be the line.
and who do we test? world record breakers? gold medalists? all finalists?
semenya is the "easy" case and the IAAF can't even handle it properly.
Vagina's do not define female biology...ovaries do. From what I understand, CS does not have ovaries.
The testicles are what give men an advantage over women (not the penis). CS has testicles and therefore should not be allowed to compete against women.
I have no problem testing other females for gender verification. Ultrasounds are non invasive and pretty accurate.
You say you don't disagree with me so why are you even bringing it up? Do you like to argue just for the sake of arguing?
Wouldn't it be great if some lawyer would take up a class action law suit on behalf of all of the women that are affected by the decision to allow CS to compete against females?
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This photo doesn't really help your case. The only real difference I see are that CS doesn't have long blonde hair. Her hips are actually wider than TP and neither has breasts to speak of. Both have broader shoulders than me.
What makes a woman? What makes a man? It isn't black and white and there apparently isn't a point on the continuum that we can agree on.
It does make track more interesting, though!