Why 1983 boston marathon was so fast???

4:52:44!!! wrote:

5 hour marathoners are gutting it out for 5 hours! Those 3 hour guys would be dying if they were out there another 2 hours. Yeah they're faster, but it's easier to get stiff and cramped moving in the same motion for 5 hours vs 3.

so if the said 3 hour marathoner, instead ran 5hr and 1 minute, than it would be more difficult? or more valuable than the 5hr marathoner?

i think your logic may be a bit faulty?

expose the frauds wrote:

same starting line................different finish line

you figure it out.

BAA TO ALTER COURSE; [THIRD Edition]

Bill Griffith, Globe Staff. Boston Globe (pre-1997 Fulltext). Boston, Mass.: Sep 5, 1985. pg. 57

Abstract (Summary)

At first, the BAA was envisioning a simple move out to Boylston street. Now, with John Hancock as the race's sponsor, the finish line will move down Boylston Street to Copley Square.

John McGrath, the New England TAC official in charge of course certification, said that he would measure the course two ways - one making the right turn off Commonwealth Avenue onto Hereford with a left onto Boylston and then as far towards Copley Square as possible. The other route would come down Commonwealth all the way to Dartmouth Street and then into Copley Square.

Full Text (374 words)

Copyright Boston Globe Newspaper Sep 5, 1985

Now that it will be known as the road from Hopkinton to the Hancock, the course for the 1986 Boston Marathon will be measured and remeasured to earn certification from The Athletics Congress, road racing's governing body.

The Boston Athletic Association knew its race route was going to change for 1986 because of the major additions being made to the Hynes Auditorium.

At first, the BAA was envisioning a simple move out to Boylston street. Now, with John Hancock as the race's sponsor, the finish line will move down Boylston Street to Copley Square.

"We want to make the finish as close to the intersection of Boylston and Dartmouth streets as possible," said Marja Wright of the BAA Board of Governors.

"It's about 530 yards from the old finish at the Prudential to Copley Square," said Len Luchner of the BAA board, "but to move the finish line that far will mean changes all along the route.

"First, we'd remove a jog that the course takes in Ashland. That will give us 283 yards.

"Then we should pick up some distance where the course used to come out of Hereford Street and looped back towards Mass. Ave. before coming down Ring Road.

"The third thing in our favor is a TAC ruling that requires us to add one tenth of one percent of the race distance. Last year we moved the starting line back 47 yards to get that distance. Now we can regain it at the start and add it to the finish."

John McGrath, the New England TAC official in charge of course certification, said that he would measure the course two ways - one making the right turn off Commonwealth Avenue onto Hereford with a left onto Boylston and then as far towards Copley Square as possible. The other route would come down Commonwealth all the way to Dartmouth Street and then into Copley Square.

"My job is to give the BAA its options," said McGrath. "They then will choose a route, and I will bring in another official to remeasure the course. With the high quality of runner that enters Boston, we want to make sure the course is accurate because a lot of age group records are set here."

cart wrote:

more people peak age

baby boomers were 23-42

I was going to mention this but you beat me to it. Actually in 1983 the age range of baby boomers would have been 19-37 yrs-old, if you use the census bureau's def of baby boom as 1946-1964.

About 75 million babies were born in the US during this time. It has been described as a pig moving thru a snake. I would further guess that this generation had exceptional economic stability & familiy support & thus more time & energy to devote to a demanding avocation.

In 2000 there were about 68 million in the US 20-37 yrs old, but I suspect the demographics are a lot different now. For example, almost double the number of foreign-born Americans now vs. then.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot wrote:

XC and track are more popular than ever.

But the kids IN XC and Track don't make running as big a priority as it used to be. I'm not saying it as a knock - it's just reality.

Videogames and the net have radically changed the way kids spend their time today. Example: in the 80s when I was in hs, running was a big deal to me. I defined myself as a runner. The only race results I could find, to figure out who the top local runners were, was to examine the small-print sports results page in the newspaper, and look for the fast times. There was no dyestat (well, there IS no dyestat now... whoops), no pictures of events, no video coverage. But I was still 'a runner', and ate up any media I could find about running, or endurance-sports in general, which included the Holy Grail of endurance-sports-coverage, the yearly IRONMAN broadcast, replete with John Tesh music and Phil Liggett's accent. Now, kids have access to tons and tons of information about their sport - results, message boards, flotrack, all this stuff - and they're less excited about these things than I was about tiny-print results in the newspaper. It's because kids today are distracted by this ADD culture of gaming and the net. Have a bad race? Don't fret about it or hammer out an evening run to vent your anger - just play a video game. Or watch a movie at home (I didn't have cable, or DVR, anything like that!).

I was distracted enough by FM radio, CDs, and antenna-tv. I would have been a much less-consistent trainer if I'd had all the distractions kids have now.

Anyway, so you had more people who defined who they were ("I'm a distance runner") than you do now. Now you have a lot of kids who 'run' but don't really have that 'runner' ethic. They're as likely to talk about how great they are/were at GTA or any popular video game than they are to talk about running.

So you had more people who were truly 'into' running, and that created a running culture, focused on fitness and competition. And it was a given that once you finished hs, you ran in college, and after that, you ran on your own anyway, because YOU WERE A RUNNER. That culture, while it still exists, is much smaller today. You see it at the elite (scholarship) level, but that level right below the scholarship-athlete level has many fewer runners who stick with it. Those runners just don't see running, and the whole fitness 'scene', as a cool way to live. The XBOX is easier, and, in some ways, more rewarding, in an impulsive, quick-hit, ADD-like way. And with everything being online play now, you add in the 'social networking' benefit of sitting on your butt in front of your computer, instead of pushing yourself on a 'fun' 12-miler.

Being a serious runner now is like being Amish. People see you and think, "Why would you live that way? Why are you doing that?!"

It used to be seen as a kinda-cool way to live your life.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

brazilian elite wrote:

1. Americans grabbed 22 of the top 23 finishes, with Dean Matthews finishing 23rd in 2:14:46.

2. Overall, 84 runners broke 2:20. That still stands as a record for a single marathon. Seventy-six of the 84 were Americans. Africans: 0. Last year, by comparison, six Americans broke 2:20.

3. A total of 313 finishers broke 2:30.

RATING RUNNERS . . . CHANCES FOR A RECORD

Joe Concannon Globe Staff. Boston Globe (pre-1997 Fulltext). Boston, Mass.: Apr 15, 1983. pg. 1

Abstract (Summary)

The only interruption was a six-day layoff early in the year with back problems. The rest may have done him good. He first burst on the world stage with his 1975 win in an American-record 2:09:55. He won three more Bostons between 1978 and 1980, four New Yorks, a Fukuoka, and was No. 1 in the world in 1975, 1977 and 1979. He's also run fairly recent personal records (PRs) at 10k (28:15, Jan. 15) and 20k (58:42, last September) and, above all, is hungry for Boston. One more thing. He's the crowd favorite. Boston Billy.John Lodwick, 29, Eugene, Ore. - He's had two solid back-to-back Bostons and has been ranked between fourth and seventh on the American list in four of the last five years. Consistent and conservative, a successful blend. He was eighth in 1978 (2:14:12), fourth in 1981 (2:11:33) and third (2:12:01) to the Salazar-Beardsley duel in a hot '82 race. He's 6 feet 4, on a course on which tall runners sometimes experience problems, and wasn't in contention in a 10,000-meter race last weekend in Eugene. "He's in better shape than he was last year," says Athletic West's Bob Sevene.Randy Thomas, 29, Newton - Talk of a conservative game plan, you talk [Randy Thomas]. He's finished fifth (2:11:15 PR) in 1978, eighth (2:14:12) in 1979 and 15th (2:13:48) in the fast 1981 race. He was fifth in Chicago (2:12:33) in his last marathon and has his sights set on Helsinki. "I'm in the best strength shape I've ever been in," he says. "I'm in better shape than I was before Chicago, and I'm on a course I prefer because of the hills."Benji Durden, 31, Stone Mt., Ga. - He was seventh on the world marathon list for 1982, with wins in Houston (2:11:11) and a hot Montreal (2:13:22) and a third in Nike (2:12:51). He has a second in Houston (2:12:20, Jan. 16) in his portfolio for '83. His Boston best was sixth in the hot 1980 race, then followed it up with a second in a PR 2:10:41 in late May in the US Olympic Marathon trials. Helsinki is a prime motivator and training has been on target.Dan Schlesinger, 27, Cambridge - The new kid on the Boston block via Yale, Oxford and Japan resides as a first-year Harvard Law School student. He stamped his return to New England with a sixth in Falmouth and was a surprise third (2:11:54) to the Salazar-Rodolfo Gomez duel in New York. Just coming off a virus, he expresses the thoughts of all those in pursuit of [Greg Meyer]: "If he puts in a 4:40 surge at the 19th mile, I can't help to catch him at the end."Jeff Wells, 28, Eugene, Ore. - Is it 1978 all over again? Is Wells the Wells who chased [Bill Rodgers] to the Prudential wire? He was second in a PR 2:10:15 that year, ran to a 2:10:20 in the 1979 Nike and was fourth in 1980 New York in 2:11:59. He's focusing on the marathon again after a stretch of indecision. He's learned how to run this course. The word out of Eugene is that he's regained a high-level fitness and is hungry to do well. He was eighth in 28:41 in 10,000-meter track race last weekend in Eugene, a speed workout.Bob Hodge, 27, Natick - He wore No. 1066 and raced to third (2:12:30) in the 1979 Boston Marathon. The breakthrough. He didn't finish a year ago, when he went out too fast and the heat got him, but the year included a win in Beppu (2:15:43) and a fifth in Fukuoka (2:11:52) to earn him the No. 8 US ranking. Training was disrupted by a January virus, and his eighth in the Nagoya, Japan 30k (1:34:58) and 16th in a Cherry Hills 10- miler (49:20) reflect it. He's another who trains on the course, and he's content to go in low-keying it. Shades of '79?Dave Gordon, 23, Olympia, Wash. - Perhaps the darkhorse of this field. He ran through drizzle and a blast of driving rain midway through the race to a Honolulu course record of 2:15:30 last December. That was his breakthrough race. Now he's looking for a fast time on a course suited to it. Sevene thinks of Meyer's '81 race and the similarities. (He was Meyer's coach in 1981, he's Gordon's in 1983.) The indicators, Sevene says, are tempting. "He's run 28:48 on the roads and an 8:02.6 3000 that's 0:19 under his PR," offers Sevene. His size (5-8, 125) may be a drawback on a course on which strength pays off.Marty Froelich, 25, Houston - He's a newcomer to the Marathon, with a 2:12:47 third in his Houston debut on Jan. 16. He trained six months for Houston at 110 miles per week and has incorporated the same program into preparations. Tuneups also included sixth in the Cherry Blossom 10- miler (47:59) on March 27. The '82 ledger included a win in Las Vegas' half-marathon (1:04:26).

Full Text (2458 words)

Copyright Boston Globe Newspaper Apr 15, 1983

The compelling backdrops to the 87th Boston Marathon are the names. Greg Meyer, Boston's new marathon man. Bill Rodgers, its four- time winner ready to turn back the clock. Joan Benoit, the women's favorite. Allison Roe, the world-record holder on the rebound.

Will Meyer win his first Boston? Will Rodgers win his fifth? Is Roe's world record in jeopardy? By either Roe or Benoit or both? Or will they be shooting for a different world record after Norway's Grete Waitz crosses the finish line in the London Marathon on Sunday?

Perhaps the last is the most intriguing question of all. "It'd be very exciting if Grete broke the world record on Sunday," says Roe, "and then we're out there doing our thing on Monday. If that happens, it'd only give me more incentive to run harder."

There's even the words of Randy Thomas, one of the prominent runners in pursuit of one of the three spots on the American team for the world championships this August in Helsinki, which will be decided by this race. Hetrains on the Marathon course, trains on the track with Meyer, and says of Boston 1983:

"You've got two runners in this race who have to be considered clear-cut favorites. Sometimes, that presents a problem. They know they're the only two. If they start worrying about each other too much, they could end up causing each other trouble.

"I can see Greg running a 2:08, Bill a 2:09. Greg - in the back of his mind - knows he can break the world record (Alberto Salazar's 2:08:13 in New York 1981) on this course, and it might take a 2:08 to win. Given favorable weather conditions - 50 degrees - you're going to have the fastest finish in Boston history. Someone's going to have to break 2:13-flat to get in the top 10."

The women's world-record picture is this. Roe set the record of 2:25:28 on Oct. 15, 1981 in New York. Waitz has the next fastest, 2:25:41 she ran on Oct. 26, 1980 in New York. Benoit is No. 3 on the strength of her 2:26:11 in Eugene, Ore. last September.

So the men's race could be a showdown between close friends Meyer and Rodgers; and with Meyer planning to shoot for the 10,000 in the world championships, an extra spot in the marathon could open up. The race for third and fourth could be a dandy. As in Randy.

The giant variable is always the weather. It's too early to predict. The second is the course, with its fast downhill start and critical hills just past the halfway point. Whatever, Boston's early form chart has the following on Monday's morning line.MenGreg Meyer, 27, Wellesley - He seized the lead in Boston 1981, and led for three miles from Newton Lower Falls to the second of the Newton hills. He fell apart and faded to 11th in 2:13:07. "If you're going to make a move early," says Meyer of his '81 lesson, "you'd better have the fitness to carry it out or the course will eat you alive. And so will the other people."

Meyer has the fitness to carry it out in '83. Every one of his 20- mile training runs has been on the course. He has the Chicago victory (2:10:59, last Sept. 26) in his background. He was rated the No. 2 road runner in the country by Track & Field News (to Salazar's No. 1) last year, and he's been pointing toward Boston.

His success this year indicates he is on target: The American- record 43:07 in the Gasparilla 15-kilometer on Feb. 6. The 1:31:05 victory over the tough and hilly Ohme, Japan 30k course on Feb. 20. The course record and personal-best 46:13 in the Cherry Blossom 10- miler on March 27. The Colonial Relays 10,000 27:53 on April 2, the world's best in a young '83. In terms of strength, speed, preparation and experience, Meyer is ready.Bill Rodgers, 35, Sherborn - It's been three years since Rodgers has keyed on a marathon with the intensity of Boston '83. He wants to make the Helsinki team. He's the one who started the ball rolling so Boston would be the trials race. He'd dearly love to win a fifth Boston. He thinks he can win again. He's aiming to lower his personal best of 2:09:27 (Boston 1979) and he has a new goal: "I want to join the 2:08 club."

The only interruption was a six-day layoff early in the year with back problems. The rest may have done him good. He first burst on the world stage with his 1975 win in an American-record 2:09:55. He won three more Bostons between 1978 and 1980, four New Yorks, a Fukuoka, and was No. 1 in the world in 1975, 1977 and 1979. He's also run fairly recent personal records (PRs) at 10k (28:15, Jan. 15) and 20k (58:42, last September) and, above all, is hungry for Boston. One more thing. He's the crowd favorite. Boston Billy.John Lodwick, 29, Eugene, Ore. - He's had two solid back-to-back Bostons and has been ranked between fourth and seventh on the American list in four of the last five years. Consistent and conservative, a successful blend. He was eighth in 1978 (2:14:12), fourth in 1981 (2:11:33) and third (2:12:01) to the Salazar-Beardsley duel in a hot '82 race. He's 6 feet 4, on a course on which tall runners sometimes experience problems, and wasn't in contention in a 10,000-meter race last weekend in Eugene. "He's in better shape than he was last year," says Athletic West's Bob Sevene.Randy Thomas, 29, Newton - Talk of a conservative game plan, you talk Randy Thomas. He's finished fifth (2:11:15 PR) in 1978, eighth (2:14:12) in 1979 and 15th (2:13:48) in the fast 1981 race. He was fifth in Chicago (2:12:33) in his last marathon and has his sights set on Helsinki. "I'm in the best strength shape I've ever been in," he says. "I'm in better shape than I was before Chicago, and I'm on a course I prefer because of the hills."Benji Durden, 31, Stone Mt., Ga. - He was seventh on the world marathon list for 1982, with wins in Houston (2:11:11) and a hot Montreal (2:13:22) and a third in Nike (2:12:51). He has a second in Houston (2:12:20, Jan. 16) in his portfolio for '83. His Boston best was sixth in the hot 1980 race, then followed it up with a second in a PR 2:10:41 in late May in the US Olympic Marathon trials. Helsinki is a prime motivator and training has been on target.Dan Schlesinger, 27, Cambridge - The new kid on the Boston block via Yale, Oxford and Japan resides as a first-year Harvard Law School student. He stamped his return to New England with a sixth in Falmouth and was a surprise third (2:11:54) to the Salazar-Rodolfo Gomez duel in New York. Just coming off a virus, he expresses the thoughts of all those in pursuit of Meyer: "If he puts in a 4:40 surge at the 19th mile, I can't help to catch him at the end."Jeff Wells, 28, Eugene, Ore. - Is it 1978 all over again? Is Wells the Wells who chased Rodgers to the Prudential wire? He was second in a PR 2:10:15 that year, ran to a 2:10:20 in the 1979 Nike and was fourth in 1980 New York in 2:11:59. He's focusing on the marathon again after a stretch of indecision. He's learned how to run this course. The word out of Eugene is that he's regained a high-level fitness and is hungry to do well. He was eighth in 28:41 in 10,000-meter track race last weekend in Eugene, a speed workout.Bob Hodge, 27, Natick - He wore No. 1066 and raced to third (2:12:30) in the 1979 Boston Marathon. The breakthrough. He didn't finish a year ago, when he went out too fast and the heat got him, but the year included a win in Beppu (2:15:43) and a fifth in Fukuoka (2:11:52) to earn him the No. 8 US ranking. Training was disrupted by a January virus, and his eighth in the Nagoya, Japan 30k (1:34:58) and 16th in a Cherry Hills 10- miler (49:20) reflect it. He's another who trains on the course, and he's content to go in low-keying it. Shades of '79?Dave Gordon, 23, Olympia, Wash. - Perhaps the darkhorse of this field. He ran through drizzle and a blast of driving rain midway through the race to a Honolulu course record of 2:15:30 last December. That was his breakthrough race. Now he's looking for a fast time on a course suited to it. Sevene thinks of Meyer's '81 race and the similarities. (He was Meyer's coach in 1981, he's Gordon's in 1983.) The indicators, Sevene says, are tempting. "He's run 28:48 on the roads and an 8:02.6 3000 that's 0:19 under his PR," offers Sevene. His size (5-8, 125) may be a drawback on a course on which strength pays off.Marty Froelich, 25, Houston - He's a newcomer to the Marathon, with a 2:12:47 third in his Houston debut on Jan. 16. He trained six months for Houston at 110 miles per week and has incorporated the same program into preparations. Tuneups also included sixth in the Cherry Blossom 10- miler (47:59) on March 27. The '82 ledger included a win in Las Vegas' half-marathon (1:04:26). Boston's been a long- standing objective. "Houston was great," he said to a friend, "but the party's over."Dean Matthews, 27, Atlanta - He'd warm up to tomorrow's birthday with a strong performance and his marathon credentials include a Honolulu win (1979, Gordon broke his course record), a Marine Corps win in 1981 and a 10th in New York 1982 with a PR 2:13:59. His log book includes similiar mileage, but higher quality. Size (5-9, 118) works against him in Boston. Tuneups included a course record 28:33 in the Dublin, Ga., 10k on March 19.Tom Raunig, 23, Eugene, Ore. - The finish to '82 included a second in the Maple Leaf Half-marathon in Manchester, Vt. (1:04:27), and a sixth in New York (2:13:22). It also included an achilles problem that idled him in December, and he hasn't raced this year. Sevene says, "His training is better than it was before New York." He's been on the 110-mile-per-week regimen since Feb. 1.Ron Tabb, 28, Eugene, Ore. - He owns a third in Boston (2:14:48), but was one of the casualties in last year's heat. Solid background includes wins in Houston 1980, Mardi Gras 1980 and Paris 1981, where he ran 2:11:44. He's pointing for Helsinki trip, and Sevene says, "He's in top shape." He's had some big marathons in his past, including fourth in the US Olympic Trials.Dennis Rinde, 24, Orangevale, Calif. - He's been in the top 10 in last two Bostons - seventh in 1981 (2:12:01) and sixth in 1982 (2:15:04) - and says he's in better condition than he was last year and his mental preparation is better. "I just didn't care," he says of his 1982 approach. He didn't finish Honolulu and experienced achilles problems after return. He's talking top five.Ed Sheehan, 24, Troy, Ala. - Qualified on strength of PR 2:13:47 in Rocket City last Dec. 11, and returns to old stomping grounds. He's a 1979 Harvard graduate. He's had an active race schedule leading him home, and experience and motivational factors could see him creeping into top 10. How high? It's anybody's guess once the order at the top is established.The womenJoan Benoit, 25, Watertown - The decision to run Boston perhaps was inevitable. As Sevene said two weeks ago in Eugene before the decision was made: "Sometimes, it's a good idea to go for it. There's more pros than cons. She loves the course. She's made for the course." The decision, you might say, had been reached.

Benoit's comeback from double achilles surgery on Dec. 28, 1981 to a rampaging seven-month season in '82 was one of running's top stories. She broke Waitz' Falmouth course record, set the American record (2:26:11) in the Nike Marathon and set American records for 10,000 meters (32:30.8) on the track and the half-marathon (1:09:02) and for 10 miles (53:18) on the roads. She's recently finished fourth in the World Cross-Country Championships in Gateshead, England and ran an American-record 31:43 for second in the Crescent City 10k on March 27.Allison Roe, 26, Auckland, N.Z. - She flew 10,000 milesfrom Auckland to Boston, arrived last Saturday night and won the Boston Milk Run 10K in 33:03 Sunday. Sound familiar? She'd flown through the time zones two years ago, arrived in Boston on the eve of the Bonne Bell and ran 32:42 to finish second. She pushed more that time, and two weeks later, set the world record (2:25:28) in New York.

Don't discount the fact that was her last serious marathon. Idled by achilles problems throughout the second part of '82, she regained her fitness during the New Zealand summer and, even though she's raced only a few times, her workouts are indicators she's at her New York '82 level. She also holds the Boston course record (2:26:45). Roe: "I feel I'm ready, otherwise I wouldn't be here."Jackie Gareau, 30, St. Bruno, Que. - She's been in Boston's top five on all three runs and started off with a victory (2:34:28) in 1980. She was fifth in 1981 (2:31:26) and second (2:36:09) last year. Recent races include PRs in the Jacksonville River Run 15k (fourth, 51:03, March 12) and the Cherry Blossom 10-miler (third, 54:20, March 27). Word out of Quebec is that she's on schedule to run in the 2:28-2:29 range on the right day.KarenDunn, 21, Durham, N.H. - This University of New Hampshire junior ran her first marathon last July 17 and won in 2:41:03 in Orono, Maine, and she followed it with second in Chicago (2:34:40) on Sept. 26 and third in Miami (2:40:51) on Jan. 22. Recently, she won the Cherry Hills 10-miler (55:33) and says she's better prepared mentally and physically than she was for Chicago. She's a legitimate darkhorse and a name to mark down for the future.Julie Isphording, 21, Cincinnati - She's a senior at Xavier University, has run Boston the past two years with a seventh in 1982 in 2:43:24. She's subsequently finished sixth in New York (2:34:24) and fourth in the Osaka Women's Marathon (2:38:32) on Jan. 23. She was ranked No. 5 by Track & Field News on the marathon list and No. 7 on the road list for '82. She ran a 52:32 15k on March 15, an American record for all women's race. Her goal is to break 2:34 and finish in the top five. She's on target.

Thanks, I like this. Brings the finishers' list to life.

they where running "real mileage" back then. Frank Shorter and Bill Rodger by some accounts over 200mi a week. even that Oriental guy Seko was running that 50 mi in singles regularly for Boston prep.

Interesting that with the mounds of research, monitors, gps watches, sports/candy bars, drinks, gel shoes, wicking socks, and running blogs that have emerged in the past 27 years, they still ran faster back then.

Four primary reasons

1. It was the height of the running boom in which everybody had not yet succumbed to the myth that "less is more"

2. People were trying to qualify for the Olympics and...

3. There were not NEARLY so many fast marathon choices then as there are now.

4. Good weather.

towhee wrote:

Interesting that with the mounds of research, monitors, gps watches, sports/candy bars, drinks, gel shoes, wicking socks, and running blogs that have emerged in the past 27 years, they still ran faster back then.

Talking of research....starting with Costill et al there's been zillions of excercise physiologists doing all that 'exciting new research' into sports science. Yes, we all understand more about what goes on when we train but what have they actually achieved for competitive running?

Note we used to have this discussion 20 yrs ago and had a hard time getting past..."well, they can fix joggers injuries quicker now..."

drinker wrote:

they where running "real mileage" back then. Frank Shorter and Bill Rodger by some accounts over 200mi a week. even that Oriental guy Seko was running that 50 mi in singles regularly for Boston prep.

Several reasons and many that have already been mentioned.

It was before there was real money in marathons which is a HUGE reason why.

I too ran against Mark Mesler and Jed and David Hintz who was also in that race and ran 2:12-2:13 (going off memory). Yes it was a qualifying race for more than one important race, but back then getting to the trials was a big thing.

Guys in what I call no man's land have woken up these days and realize a 2:18 is not going to get them anywhere in terms of making a "real" living off of running, hence there are less of them. Case in point: The Hanson's had some decent runners, but where does 2:15 honestly get you when you've got Meb, Dathan and Ryan, a 2:06 marathoner? Keep running 2:15 and you've got what?

Heck, Mark Mesler ran that at Boston and unless you knew him, who knew about it. Kyle O'Brien ran 2:15 and you would have thought the oceans had all drained dry! Look at London and there's the proof (bonk, bonk, bonk). He gave it a shot which I would have too, but unfortunately he didn't have the ability for the next level. So what's he doing now? Where's Clint? He was wise and got his degree in Physical Therapy and that will take him a lot further than running ever did. The internet made him a popular 2:14 marathoner, but why not the guys from 1983.....no information highway for exposure, that's why.

I believe there are a lot more runners out there who are capable of a sub 2:20, but where's that gonna get them.

Now all those runners who broke 2:20 in 1983 would have run somewhere else had there been a marathon that spring offering 3-5 grand for a victory, but there weren't because the prize money wasn't there.

Now when we have it ($$$$) in road races and marathons today, those runners are competing against foreign runners who will beat them 9 out of 10 times. So, where' the incentive?

The point about the internet and websites and all that good stuff has some validity as well, but it's not hurting Ryan or Dathan and their blogs not is it? Having talent and using the gift has gotten them far and made both of them quite a good living, but again, guys with the ability of running the sub 2:20 that so many US runners ran that day are living during a different time.

I recall Bob Hodge running around 2:11 and for that time, he was fairly well-known because of Runner's World, not just in the Boston area. If you ran 2:11 today you would be "very well-known", due to the 21st century information highway. Heck, who follows the sport and didn't know what Brett Gotcher ran, the day he ran it! I was at the 80 Free Press Marathon when Greg Meyer won with a new debut record for Americans in 2:13 and change. But by the time it came out, Alberto had already broken it in New York a month later.

In closing, runners are faster now, but the depth is not there and won't be because who is going to pay a mediocre marathoner to keep running 2:15-2:20? Back then, it wasn't expected because unless you were Bill Rodgers or Frank Shorter, who really got paid any real money?

Flame away, my suit is on.

What did 2:15 get you in 1983? When you had, as Bill Squires points out, guys running faster than that and not even getting free shoes the 2:15 didn't bring much then either. But it brought itself and that was often enough. Now a time seems more like a currency and yu have people asking why they should bother because the ffort doesn't seem worthwhile.

tailwind...end of story

Some of the results are here, in case anyone is interested:

http://www.coolrunning.com/boston/results3.htm

Which was my point HRE, thanks! I wasn't asking for an answer that I already knew......which was 2:15 didn't do jack squat back then, now a guy like Clint Verran is amazing for running 2:14.

From my knowledge, Mark Mesler paid his way there and David Hintz told me that although he didn't beat Rodgers that day, he could see him almost the entire race except for a few turns here and there.....guess how much he got paid to run and how much he won? Guess how many invites he got after that race? It's not sour grapes, it's reality.

As I said, it's the information highway that keeps these guys going. I believe Mike Morgan ran 2:15-2:16 or there about in the last year to year and a half and I kept hearing about his potential for the future. Really, is he going to suddenly drop 5 minutes? How? He's 30 and he's been at it for many years, when is this going to happen? When Mark Mesler ran the same time, no one asked about his potential for the future or the future of David Hintz, who ran even faster.

I think professioanlism has changed the sport significantly. What I'm about to write will sound like I'm against professionalism and I'm not. It makes as much sense for a runner to make a living from their sport as it does for a tennis player or bowler.

But with professioanlism came the idea that the point of running is to make a living and if you can't make a decent living from your sport why bother being serious? We didn't have that in the amateur era. It made as much sense for a 2:40 guy to run 120 miles a week to get to 2:30 as it did for a 2:25 guy to run 120 mpw to get to 2:20. That's no longer the case.

This thing still going on? They just got at it, enough said.

o.O wrote:

brazilian elite wrote:

1. Americans grabbed 22 of the top 23 finishes, with Dean Matthews finishing 23rd in 2:14:46.

2. Overall, 84 runners broke 2:20. That still stands as a record for a single marathon. Seventy-six of the 84 were Americans. Africans: 0. Last year, by comparison, six Americans broke 2:20.

3. A total of 313 finishers broke 2:30.

It would still be that fast if you just made every marathon harder to qualify for the actual race.

You should have to start an entire hour behind the real marathon runners if you can't break 2:40. It would be called the "I'm just trying to finish Coral"

Omg are we really going with this line of thought again? To the person who posted this, what is your PR? I'm guessing somewhere between 2:36-2:39:59? I know people who work their arse off to run 2:10, people who work it off to run 2:20, 2:30, 2:40, 2:50, 3:00, 3:10, 3:20, you get the idea. I know people who work as hard as they can to run 5:00!

However I agree if more of the talented people were working as hard as these people I know, we'd see more sub-2:15's and sub-2:20's, as was happening back then.