Wang Junxia 10000m world record

and the opposite holds true for Geb and Bekele, who are not shorter specialists at all, not even close.

Bekele can't even challenge the WR, yet even dream of breaking 3:30 for 1500.

Wang is only a second off the fastest woman's time in the 1500 and she held the 3k WR. She was obviously a middle distance runner running long hard miles and moving up in her 10k race.

joxls wrote:

Wang wasn't running that speed for the entire race, like Bekele or Geb were in their respective fastest races.

You're being an idiot for leaving that fact out. Wang was an obvious shorter distance specialist moving up, she ran her race just like a shorter distance specialist would.

The splits are Solinsky's. You're telling me that a Chinese woman running a solo 29:30 ran the same splits over the 8th and 9th k as he did running a 26:59. And I'm the idiot.

You're also telling me that Wang was an "obvious" shorter distance specialist when she was a 2:24 marathoner (the fastest mark in the world in 1993).

She wasn't jacked. She was a dude.

there have been many rumors that the Chinese used feminine looking 20 year olds. That's also why these Chinese "women" never ran near as fast at bigger international meets.

OBLAMA wrote:

Didn't some Kenyan do the same thing in the 70's?

YOU FAIL EPICALLY. GO BACK TO YOUR HOLE AND DIE.

Not sure where the anger comes from, but at least get your facts right. You're talking about Henry Rono, who broke four world records in 81 days.

Wang supposedly broke three world records in six days. I forgot to mention that there were prelims in the 3k. So here's the breakdown:

September 8: 29:31, WR

September 11: 3:51.92, #2 all-time (now #4), betters old WR

September 12: 8:12, WR

September 13: 8:06, WR

I'm sure there were prelims in the 1500 as well. But we're looking at at least 17.5K of world record performances, spread out over four races in six days. And unlike Rono, she never touched those times again (Rono actually bettered his 5K WR in 1981).

Here's another good one: The top 7 all-time 3000 meter performances came from the 1993 Chinese national championships. Two are from Wang's prelims. The last 3k of her 10k would rank #6 on the all-time world 3k rankings. No non-Chinese woman has ever broken 8:20-- Wang supposedly did it three times in six days, once at the end of an already world-record pace 10k.

(All-time top 3,000 meters-- from the IAAF site)

8:06.11 Junxia Wang 13.9.1993

8:12.18 Yunxia Qu 13.9.1993

8:12.19 Junxia Wang 12.9.1993

8:12.27 Yunxia Qu 12.9.1993

8:16.50 Linli Zhang 13.9.1993

*Wang's closing 3k would rank here

8:19.78 Liyan Ma 12.9.1993

8:21.26 Liyan Ma 13.9.1993

I think it had to be a short track.

113 wrote:

I think it had to be a short track.

Antwerp syndrome?

'would say that the WR differential men/women over 10K seems as believable to me as that over 5K.

Most women did not train REALLY HARD hard at the 800m-10K track distances in earlier years,in fact the general times were pretty pathetic apart from the odd one or two often put down to so called "male" characteristics in the female runner.I have no doubt that one of the more recent African female prodigies could crack Wang's record if they got off the money making band wagon. If marathoners like Kristiansen, Radcliffe and others could run within 40s of Wang's time it confirms my point. All you knockers should get over it.'

You are right about other runners like the East Africans being able to match their time. You are ignoring the differences though. First the EA's are born at & train at altitude. They EA's have a history of running at the top level from the 1960's. They didn't go from club runners to world record holders overnight, their athletes gradually improved over years. The Chinese took up running at 18 then bingo in their first year they are setting world records all over the place. Forget EPO you need steroids for that level of quick improvement in female distance runner - and thats why their men were rubbish - it does not work on male distance runners to anywhere near the same effect

A couple of years later & where are they - nowhere apart from a few who were busted for doping along with that Ma guy.

Tatyana Kazankina was jacked and if you look at the top end of this list, she is in good company:

http://www.iaaf.org/statistics/toplists/inout=o/age=n/season=0/sex=W/all=y/legal=A/disc=1500/detail.html

113 wrote:

I think it had to be a short track.

It wasn't a short track. The men didn't record unusually quick times and four years later Jiang Bo, Lang Yinglai, Yin Lili, Lan Lixin, Zhang Ling, Dong Yanmei, ran just as fast over 1500m on the same Shanghai track that was used for the Diamond League meet on Sunday.

To account for the 3000m they could have run 100m short.

Give 16 s. That would adjust the 8:06 to 8:22, still a world record.

FIVE women broke the old WR in that race.

Maybe the 1500 was started in in the middle of the backstretch and was 50m short.

The men weren't world record caliber so they may have just started them at the proper lines. There was more incentive with the women. Wang and Qu were World Champions. You could belive them breaking records.

Shanghai? Replicating times in another all Chinese affair doesn't exactly vindicate things here. How about doing it in international competition?

From what I can tell, no Chinese woman has ever run faster than 3:57 oustide of these two all Chinese races held in China.

toro wrote:

Doping deosn't make you run crazy uneven splits.

Here is one theory:

The 8K and 9K splits were clicked 100m early which is why they are 17-18 seconds faster than the previous splits.

Then maybe she can crank out a 2:47 close.

Total distance: 9,800m.

The last "3K" would be 2800m giving a more reasonable but still fast 8:50 closing 3K instead of an insane 8:17.

Another 200m would still put her under the then world record of 30:13.

You just don't carry 10K record pace for 7K and then throw in a WR pace 3K to close.

oh. wrote:

This is definitely the best explanation I've seen. For those of you who believe this record is legitimate, you must be living one hell of a blissful life.

This explanation is so utterly dumb, I honestly don't know where to begin. But let's just start with the "2800

meter 3000"- you're saying that she ran 24 1/2 laps instead of 25 full laps? And that they recorded and reported an official time for 10,000 that was only 9800 meters? I suppose it could happen IF the bell AND the bell ringer somehow moved themselves 180 degrees over to the other side of the track.

And the "100 meter early splits" um... WHAT? So somehow the lap counter suddenly recorded a split at the other end of the straight, coming out of a curve instead of into it. I can see a 200 meter stagger because someone got mixed up but 100 m? That's simply impossible to do by mistake.

I am not implying it was a mistake. I am implying, as a theory, that it was intentional.

Start at the 200m start. Run 24 1/2 laps.

1000 m splits are alternately taken at 200m start and fininish.

The 7K split would have been taken at the finsih line in this case (instead of 200m mark as normal).

Then take the 8K split 900m later at the 1500m start.

Then take 9K split 900m later at the 200m start.

Run 1000m to the finish.

That's 9800m.

Yes, it is impossible to do by mistake.

It would be very devious.

113 wrote:

The splits are Solinsky's

Sokinsly not man. This why run fast.

And track only 24 lap.

That's a bit too exotic an explanation for what happened tbh. The short track theories instantly fall apart when you realise the obvious fact that the 1993 Nationals were not the only meet held in that stadium. The 1990 Asian games were held at the same stadium, so you think the Korean, Japanese etc athletes would have had something to say about a 350m track

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing_Workers_Stadium

In these cases the simplest explanation is normally the correct one. In all liklihood Junxia was the most talented middle/long distance athlete we've ever seen; combine that with potent drugs and you get 29:30, 8:06 and 3:51. Bear in mind she did win gold and silver in atlanta, having to run 20,000m in 3 days in 90 degree heat (the only athlete to attempt the double in those circumstances). Even Dibaba would struggle to replicate that feat.

And videos do exist:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woCO3f0paE8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuOSbU4N-AE&feature=related

http://tv.sohu.com/20090719/n265320285.shtml

http://bugu.cntv.cn/sports/information/tiyuzaixian/classpage/video/20100503/100074.shtml

(7:00 onwards)

If my Chinese were more passable I could probably find lot's more. Coverage seems to be freely available.

Every distance runner than has ever won an Olympic Medal in the last 40 years was a stinking doper.

Jhao wrote:

And videos do exist:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woCO3f0paE8http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuOSbU4N-AE&feature=relatedhttp://tv.sohu.com/20090719/n265320285.shtmlhttp://bugu.cntv.cn/sports/information/tiyuzaixian/classpage/video/20100503/100074.shtml

(7:00 onwards)

Interesting videos. I'd love to see a full recording of the WR.

Forget the 10,000 and let's focus on the 3,000 run five days later. She ran 8:06. That's 4:03 back to back. That is, she ran two world class 1,500s back to back. Assuming an evenly paced 1,500 race with a kick in the last 200, she ran the first 1,300 even with the very best women currently running the 1,500 . . . and then she did it again. Think about that. How could she not be juiced????

anybody run an analysis on those splits with 4 laps left and 2 laps left? it looks like 25:25 with 4 laps left which gives 4:06 remaining, but of course she is on the turn already and past the actual lap split by what ..? 40 meters?

If her 9k split was 26:44 then from that moment we see in the video sh has 1:19 to get around 560 meters which would be a 1:25ish which seems unreasonable - again I'm not making any claims other than asking if anyone has studied the video for inconsistencies?

joxls wrote:

Bekele can't even challenge the WR, yet even dream of breaking 3:30 for 1500.

are you trolling?

cause Bekele has run 3:31 or 3:32 in his first year of running the 1500m. if he focused on it for more than a year, you better believe that he'd be significantly under 3:30.

The obvious wrote:

She was Chinese, and Chinese are Asian.

Asians work harder than normal people, especially amongst women.

This is why Asian women are so much more successful than normal women of other races.

Go to any graduate level school in the world, it will be filled with Asians, unless its a bad school.

This is a simple fact of life.

I'm with "The obvious" on this one. I disagree with his blanket statement that "This is why Asian women are much more successful..." but what I can add is that Asian women, especially women from rural China and all of Japan, are far more able to tolerate PAIN. I've trained with Masako Chiba, Yoko Shibui and Reiko Tosa, and I can tell you that they effort that they can put out in training is amazing.

I've said this many times and I'll say it again....Wang Junxia's record is legit. The track was not short or it would not have been certified as the record along with the 1500 and 3000 records which were on the same track and the same meet. The only question remaining is about drugs, and we'll never never ever know for sure, so we should give her the benefit of the doubt. She never tested positive on anything during her career. The burden of proof is on the anti-doping authorities, not on the athlete.

Jason