Great race at Penn...would've have been even more compelling if OSU was in that race. They somehow pulled a 7:17 at Drake the night before. Would it have made a difference if they were running at Penn? Also, I think some of them were "tired" from running the 4 x 1600 earlier in the day too.
I do NOT like the Buckeyes, but they did run some good performances at Drake.
The only fact you omitted is you weren't there. You are a troll and a Oregon Hater !
I was there on the infield and that last lap was great.
Robby Andrews' home stretch was thrilling and his winning reaction was true excitement.
This guy has a lot of charisma and puts on a good show.
The Longest Yard wrote:
Foster was only 10 meters behind at the handoff.
He was only three meters behind at the handoff.
http://www.flotrack.org/videos/coverage/view_video_rewrite/236836/329573http://www.flotrack.org/videos/coverage/view_video_rewrite/236836/329573Mycroft Holmes wrote:
Borchers ran 2:56 on the DMR. That's a lot better than OK. And I think he was around 4:09-4:10 in the 4xmile. Not his best but not bad really. Maybe went out a little hard trying to make up ground.
2:56.9 is not "ok" for a guy who ran 4:03 in high school three years ago. Any reasonable college miler can put three 59 second laps together for a 1200 leg. 4:09-4:10 is also chump change.....he did not go out hard, I was there and saw his face - he was grimacing from 200 meters on.
PSU takes the pipe wrote:
2:56.9 is not "ok" for a guy who ran 4:03 in high school three years ago. Any reasonable college miler can put three 59 second laps together for a 1200 leg. 4:09-4:10 is also chump change.....he did not go out hard, I was there and saw his face - he was grimacing from 200 meters on.
Exactly. Bill McChesney was a 4:07 miler in high school. He ran a 2:56 1200 in a workout his senior year.
He handed off within a second of Matt Centrowitz....Solid, I don't see any reason to bash him. It looks like a 3:41-44 should be in the mix soon. Yeah, he's inconsistent as hell, but this was a sign of life.
so what would happen if all 12 UVA Oregon and PSU guys entered an open 800. I have PSU winning on points. Andrews and wheating would go 1-2
Lions self-destructed wrote:
stillllll searching..... wrote:3rd leg blew it for PSU... ran 50.x for first 400.
can't blame foster for getting after it.. he would have been closer if he didn't have to book it to latch onto andrews and wheating.
andrews ran SMART! he had the lead and ran controlled at 55 knowing wheating or Foster would try and blow by him. Hell of race. Jersey represent!
Foster ran like a f***ing idiot at NCAAs and it appeared that he overcompensated in his adjustment and screwed PSU any chance of the win on the first lap.
Williams, lets just say he's lucky that Harry wasn't coach -- that would have been a hell of a ruckus in the woodshed.
Loxsom, the freshman, was the only one who acted like he's been there before.
The UVA guy ran the same 50.xx that Williams did. He faded just a little less but he still faded. A botched hand off for Oregon from leg 2 to 3 might have saved their man from that same fade.
A guy like Williams can handle that pace. He is a 46 guy and ran really well in the DMR. Maybe he just didnt fully recover from the DMR and thats why he faded, where as guys like Greer and Finley were fresh. But lets face it PSU was not out of it by any means because of Williams.
When you have 3 men who are all starting together and opening with a 54, its coming down to the kick.
Yes, Foster should have been more patient.
"A guy like Williams can handle that pace" No - couldn't be more wrong - no college runner should split 50.x in a 400.. thats too fast. theres a reason Williams and the UVA guy faded, they went out too fast.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LHid-nC45k
and they didn't start together, Foster had to surge to latch onto the group.
stillllll searching..... wrote:
Yes, Foster should have been more patient.
I love all the Monday morning quarterbacks on Letsrun who could only dream of having been in the hunt for a Championship of America title.
As a PSU alum I am proud that they stuck their nose in the thick of it and to a man went for the win. Isn't that what it's all about folks?
Not one of them pussy footed around. Yes in hindsight I suspect that if Lionel had a mulligan he would have gone out a tad bit slower, but he clearly was trying to gain separation on the field to give Ryan a cushion.
And Ryan did what he felt gave him the best chance at getting to the line first. He knew the first 400 was slow and that he had to try something and not allow it to come down to the fastest guy over the last 100. He knows he's not that guy in a foot race with Wheating and Andrews.
Well done Lions. Go for it again in 2011.
Excellent analysis. I think you, unlike many freshmen here at LR get it. Guys like Greer and Finley showed the advantage of coming in fresh. Nearly to a man, the guys who were fresh had the extra bit in their legs from 700 to 800 meters. Let's give Virginia credit for bringing in four guys with fresh legs to race off against Penn an Oregon, both of whom had runners who had raced on either Friday or Saturday. This explains Penn's fade and it explains why Virginia was even in the race at the end. It will be interesting indeed to watch these guys at NCAA's. They all will have to run heats (though some may double). The Robby Andrews/Andrew Wheating kick debate is so absurd it is unreal. These were two guys running different races Andrews came in totally fresh, while Wheating was trying to lead his team to its third wheel, after he had already anchored a winning DMR team on Friday evening. One thing that we can all be sure of is that Wheating won't get caught by surprise again.
Lion Heart wrote:
Well done Lions. Go for it again in 2011.
Another Lion alum here who strongly disagrees. You just don't run 7:18 at the Podunk Relays and run 7:17 at Penn and call it a job well done. This was a coaching failure. A terrible plan and a crappy execution by the 3rd and 4th legs. The only runners that should be touching the baton on those critical legs are the ones with a "gimmme the stick and get out of my f***ing way" mentality.
Exploit your strengths, mitigate your weaknesses.
At that level you want your best competitors (regardless of PRs) on the 3rd and 4th legs. Williams, the weakest leg on the team, in both PRs and racing savvy, should have been eating a soft pretzel by the time Foster got the stick. My relay line-up is Williams-Dawson-Loxsom-Foster. (by next year Loxsom might be the go-to guy).
No way in hell a weak 1:49 runner should EVER go out in 50-point. Bats will fly out of my ass and hell will freeze over on the same day before Williams ever "separates from the field" at the Penn Relays. You might characterize his crazy running as "not pussy-footing around" I disagree. It was a show of weakness, and there is nothing more pussy-footing than running scared. Williams belonged on the first leg, out of the way from harm, and with orders to not be in the lead until they give it to him.
Dawson ran like he's been there before. Got off the start a little slow, didn't panic and deftly worked his way into the lead. Loxsom is the real deal -- got the baton, looked down the track and just bludgeoned the guy who beat Andrews at ACC. Foster gets a "C", but he just played into the hands of two guys who dig in deep when they see the finishline. If you're not the guy who digs deep then you need to be the guy who makes the pace honest.
Good thing, State has all four runners back next year.
The Relays Record of 7:11.17 was by four badass 'blue-collar' runners who executed a plan and fell back on superior intelligence and superior firepower. And that's all she wrote.
1985 7:11.17
1:49.2 Vance Watson, Sophomore (1:49.0 '84)
1:47.9 Steve Shisler, Junior (1:48.8 '85)
1:48.5 Chris Mills, Freshman (1:46.8 '87)
1:45.5 Randy Moore, Senior (1:45.9 '85)
2010 7:17.02
1:49.8 Owen Dawson, Junior (1:48.85 '10)
1:46.6 Casimir Loxsom, Freshman (1:47.98 '10)
1:51.9 Lionel Williams, Junior (1:49.07 '10)
1:48.7 Ryan Foster, Junior (1:47.32 '10)
malmo wrote:
Another Lion alum here who strongly disagrees.
We can agree to disagree.
Part of my point is more global to the infamous LetsRun community who chime in with their wealth of knowledge on how they would have run when in reality they'd be lucky to even sniff the jock strap racing any of these guys on one of their off days.
I suspect you may have had a race or two over your admirable career that didn't go according to plan, I know I did.
Cheers!
what are the chances of you and malmo talking this one out at harry's golf outing? if i go, i'll pay for drinks...
seems like the thread is full of PSU alums (me too)
sure. agree to disagree.
however, its williams opening 400 and foster's early kick that cost PSU the title.
good thing is i believe nearly all 12 men from the top 3 teams have eligibility for 2011... hopefully another excellent race
stillllll searching..... wrote:
Yes, Foster should have been more patient.
"A guy like Williams can handle that pace" No - couldn't be more wrong - no college runner should split 50.x in a 400.. thats too fast. theres a reason Williams and the UVA guy faded, they went out too fast.
I'm not supporting his 50.xx. I just feel if someone is going to try and separate from the field it should be a guy who can run a 46, not a miler/steeplechase runner.
Well done by the UVA guy to hang on like he did.
kipketer wrote:
I'm not supporting his 50.xx. I just feel if someone is going to try and separate from the field it should be a guy who can run a 46,
That's completely wrong because you're ignoring the elephant in the living room: it was a 1:49 guy ( on a good day) who was taking it out in 50 point. That's a formula that is 100% guaranteed to fail.
Lion Heart wrote:
I suspect you may have had a race or two over your admirable career that didn't go according to plan, I know I did.
Cheers!
Having races that don't go to plan is all part of the experience. Running like a f***ing idiot is not.
malmo wrote:
Lion Heart wrote:I suspect you may have had a race or two over your admirable career that didn't go according to plan, I know I did.
Cheers!
Having races that don't go to plan is all part of the experience. Running like a f***ing idiot is not.
Malmo, do you have any happiness in your life? You always seem to be angry or upset about something. I'm sure you are a genuine person, I hope you find something to smile about.