all he had to do is put in more miles, maybe 200 MPW. thats everyones solution on this site.I realize you're being sarcastic but looking at the 600 time I wonder if there is something he could have done to scratch out that extra second he needed to top the 800 list. What were his splits for that 600? 23 24 25 ?
I realize you're being sarcastic but looking at the 600 time I wonder if there is something he could have done to scratch out that extra second he needed to top the 800 list. What were his splits for that 600? 23 24 25 ?
I have no firsthand knowledge, but I remember reading on a message board once that Gray went through the 400 in low-47s. That's consistent with your guess splits.
What did Gray manage to run in the 400? My guess would be he was in the 45s.
Interestingly I read that Johnny Gray started in high school as a 2-miler his freshman year. There must have been some serious 400 runners on that team!
Fair statement. I always considered JG a talent on par with Cruz, Coe and Ovett, but was disappointed with his performance on the world stage. Was he great? Absolutely. Did he perform up to his potential? Perhaps not. I distinctly remember yelling at the television at during some WC when I he blew up and kind of gave up in the last 100m.[/quote]
JG was not close to those three in talent. I lived in Europe in the '80's and to them he was sort of forgettable.
Pittsburgh Joe wrote: I always considered JG a talent on par with Cruz, Coe and Ovett,
Your consideration is appreciated but completely misguided.
Those who believe Johnny Gray didn't "run up to his full potential"....whatever that means....are idiots.
Those who believe Jim Ryun didn't run up to his full potential are bigger idiots.
Groovy wrote:
Fair statement. I always considered JG a talent on par with Cruz, Coe and Ovett, but was disappointed with his performance on the world stage.
He is the last mid/long distance American male to medal in an Olympics so your disappointment list must be pretty long.
Groovy wrote:
JG was not close to those three in talent. I lived in Europe in the '80's and to them he was sort of forgettable.
Wow, you lived in the same continent as Coe and Ovett? You are truely an expert.
Others have said it, but: Why start a thread like this? 1:42.6 is somehow not "good enough"? WTF!?
old tymer wrote:
Others have said it, but: Why start a thread like this? 1:42.6 is somehow not "good enough"? WTF!?
Exactly. I think Johnny Gray ran up to his full potential, shook it's hand, slapped it on the back and took off like a bat of out hell.
agreed - I think he was one of the all time greats. I wish we had someone that ran like hm now in the US.
Matt Hughes beat BJ too wrote:
altoroad wrote:I'm not sure why Jim Ryun would come to mind, except that he was apparently well before your time. Ryun broke the world record in the mile twice, and won a silver medal in the 1968 1,500 in an incredible race.
Because Ryun didn't run up to his potential. Did you read the title of the thread? Then did you actually think about the guy's post?
I don't think of Jim Ryun as someone who "didn't run up to his potential". Of course lesser minds might disagree. I'd say that Tom Byers is the quintessential example of such a runner. I don't think Johnny Gray comes close to meeting that standard either.
altoroad wrote:
I don't think of Jim Ryun as someone who "didn't run up to his potential". Of course lesser minds might disagree. I'd say that Tom Byers is the quintessential example of such a runner. I don't think Johnny Gray comes close to meeting that standard either.
Ryun had a sub-3:50 in him. Injuries, insane training early on in his career, and less rigorous competition prevented him from doing it.
Well in 1988 when Gray set off more conservatively he did not medal (was he injured?):
Final
RANK FINAL TIME
1 Paul Ereng (KEN)1:43.55
2 Joaquim Cruz (BRA)1:43.90
3 Saïd Aouita (MAR)1:44.06
4 Peter Elliott (GBR)1:44.12
5 Johnny Gray (USA)1:44.80
6 José Luiz Barbosa (BRA)1:46.39
7 Donato Sabia (ITA)1:48.038
8 Nixon Kiprotich (KEN)1:49.55
He came back four years later to win Bronze which is very impressive at age 32
Also the stats I have for his AR give 50.6/52. That's good pacing
Johnny Gray said in Track and Field News that he was not allowed (by the Korean officials) to warm up the way he usually warms up. This was his explanation for 5th place. He did not mention an injury.
a number of thoughts wrote:
Gray was a great runner with a great career. Not all can hit the Olympic magic (e.g. Steve Scott).
What we wouldn't give to have an American 800 runner running 1:42/43 today. And while not for every athlete, front running works for many top flight 800 runners.
The 1984 Olympic 800 was a marvel. Although based solely on impression, Cruz's last 100 appears to be one of the best ever. And the quality of his finish was underscored several days later, when Coe dominated the 1500 field with his kick. Cruz beat a fit Coe and a very talented Earl Jones.
I recall that Earl Jones was injured seriously in a car accident? I hope that he is leading a fruitful life, and is doing well.
Cruz's last 100m was 12.6, but not so much a kick, as he was just maintaining his speed better than the rest. His last 200 was 25.2, so he went 12.6, 12.6.
Coe's last 100 in the 800 final was 13.0, but what isn't obvious from watching the race is that he and Jones clashed elbows with about 80m to run, which probably cost them 1 or 2 tenths. They certainly wouldn't have caught Cruz on the day, but the gap would have been smaller.
I think it's difficult to compare the last 100m between an 800 and 1500m, though I'd say Coe's 12.7 last 100 in the 1500 final showed he was nearer top form then, than he had been in the 800 final. Although he certainly didn't have the same kick as he displayed in 81; 12.0 last 100 (24.8 last 200) in World Cup, or 11.3 in the Europa Cup semi.
It was a fascinating 800 final in LA. Gray seemed to be in contention until the 600m point, where he appeared to give up. Jones ran sensibly in lane 1 on the last curve, while Cruz was a little wide and Coe more so. Certainly both the top 2 would have recorded faster times had they ran 800m rather than several metres more.
I think Gray's longevity at the top was staggering, and quite unrivaled, though I'm sure he'd rather have had a shorter spell at the top with more medals. I think, considering the way he ran and the opportunity he had over many seasons; while seeming to avoid serious injury problems; Gray probably ran very close to his potential.
MarathonMind wrote:
And I see in the youtube videos that Wilson K for his 1:41.11 went out in 49 flat and came back in 52.1
Unreal. Still, interesting that going out in 48.1 got him a slightly slower time.
The 800 is a unique event- I think the folks who run it well are on another plane altogether. And think about it- if not for WK, Coe would STILL be the WR holder, and as it is there are only 2 performances better than his. And I notice on the video of Coe's WR that he even had to go wide to pass the leader on the 3rd turn.
I think you'll find that 48.1 and 49 flat were the rabbits' times. Kip went through in 48.3/48.4 in the first run (48.4/52.8) and 49.3 in the 2nd:- 49.3/51.8. Clearly the Zurich race was too fast on the first lap.
MarathonMind wrote:
And I see in the youtube videos that Wilson K for his 1:41.11 went out in 49 flat and came back in 52.1
Unreal. Still, interesting that going out in 48.1 got him a slightly slower time.
The 800 is a unique event- I think the folks who run it well are on another plane altogether. And think about it- if not for WK, Coe would STILL be the WR holder, and as it is there are only 2 performances better than his. And I notice on the video of Coe's WR that he even had to go wide to pass the leader on the 3rd turn.
I think you'll find that 48.1 and 49 flat were the rabbits' times. Kip went through in 48.3/48.4 in the first run (48.4/52.8) and 49.3 in the 2nd:- 49.3/51.8. Clearly the Zurich race was too fast on the first lap.
And yes, Coe probably lost about 0.2 going wide on the 3rd turn. So his time would have been 1:41.5.