Chiropractic 'science' is dead

I don't usually get into these pissing contests, but when somebody states "Lets try a little knowledge and research people.." and research would in fact refute a lot of what they're proclaiming, I have to intervene.

Davenport, IA, the mecca and birthplace of chiropractic thanks to D.D. Palmer (a grocery store owner by trade originally) has a chiropractic office on about every other street corner. There is no shortage of chiropractors in that town claiming they can cure allergies, illnesses, autism, etc. And yes they do advertise the theory of subluxation. My own cousin, unforunately, takes his kids to one for allergies.

A chiropractor I know works as a researcher at the school and identifies himself as a musculoskeletal specialist. This group has a lot in common with orthopedic PTs. Unfortunately, as a researcher and a musculoskeletal specialist, he will tell you he is in the minority.

Regarding the research done on manipulation/adjustments, if you perform an exhaustive search on PubMed, you'll see that most of it is performed by PTs. This fact was touted by PTs in the state of Washington this year as they fought the chiros in order to get the right to manipulate.

Concerning school, you don't even need a BS to get into chiro school and the GPA and science core GPA minimums would not even have let me sniff PT school

http://www.palmer.edu/prospective2.aspx?id=88

Training in manipulation for PT students is currently mandatory for all accredited programs.

Bottom line, there are good and bad Drs, chiros, PTs, etc. As a PT and runner, having read Portland chiropractor's post, what he/she stated was sound in logic and on point. My guess is he/she has an extensive background in running and orthopedics. These are the kind of professionals that an injured runner has to be discerning and relentless enough to find. Like Dr. Tim Noakes suggested when seeking treatment for an injury, it is extremely helpful if the professional has a runnning background.

By the way, I live in Colorado Springs and know one the Docs who was cut loose recently by the USOC in budget cuts. Those DCs are for the Winter Games only, not full-time staff. In typical American fashion, the USOC employs more lawyers than anything (and my dad is a lawyer).

I've been to many PT and many Chiropractors in my life. I don't really care about these type of he said she said articles because really unless you are an expert in the field and can do the actual research you'll never really know for sure how accurate any of these articles are.

I can say this though -- I've usually never seen any Benefits from PT aside from recovering an IT band injury (which the Chiro failed to treat). Pretty much every other injury I've ever had has had great results from Chiro and non-existent results from PT.

Coincidence? You decide.

Hiya folks wrote:

For instance, there is a sizable group of them that believes that by adjusting the spine they can increase fertility in women trying to conceive children.

My spine was corrected and now I can have children. True story.

Had muscle problems in my chest and back due to all things....daytrading for a living everyday. Went to my primary care giver and I got some muscle relaxers and pain relievers. Not really a cure, but nice to have on bad days. Went to a chiro. She folded me up and twisted me around, along with some intensive massage techniques, followed by 45 minute massage therapy. Good to go. Doesn't push to see her every week. Just come in when feeling it. Sometimes a month sometimes 8 months. Also helped with a hip problem that I felt when running. Never realized it, because I had grown used to the slight pain with it.

Just my $.02

My DC has done wonders for me. As I get older, my back and other areas start to break down as the years grow on. My DC has really helped in that area. Second, ART has done wonders with my knots in my gastroc muscle. After pulling them in 1991, I thought I would never race again. I am now down to 6:30 and still working on it. Just my .03 cents.

Oh and my DC is also a Nurse Practioner..not that it matters...

About not needing a BS to get into Chiro school... you don't need a BS to get into Med school or any other school either... so long as prerequisites are fulfilled.

I'm surprised this archaic thinking still persists. As an administrator over a multidisciplinary clinic I can attest to the validity of both chiropractic and traditional medical care.

As far as the notion of bones being out of alignment not visible on x-ray, I would agree. However when motion studies are performed, a lack of movement of one bone over another is readily evident.

Our chiropractor said that you could exercise the heck out of the area that is not moving but it still won't make it move properly. For example if your knee is fixated, you can move it and exercise it. If your L3 is not moving properly on your L4, you cannot target those specific segmental levels and incur movement with exercises (other than the wrong fixated movement). Even our PT agrees with this.

As far as cross over into other fields by chiropractors. This is actually being mandated by the insurance companies. Studies show that chiropractic adjustments in conjunction with active therapy yields the best results. Therefore it is becoming a requirement that exercises be implemented.

Our medical doctors appreciate having an additional outlet in the practice to refer to. Beyond exercise and medication, chiropractic care is considered an appropriate conservative adjunct to back, neck and extremity pain.

Even our medical doctors see the chiropractor for their ailments, due to the fact that they are unable to function when taking the pain medications they prescribe others.

There is tons of research supporting the validity of chiropractic care. However, there are good ones and bad ones as in any profession. If your chiropractor says you have to come every day for 6 months or makes you pre-pay for all your appointments, RUN! But this fortunately is the exception, not the rule.

Chiropractic education is the same as an MD education, with one exception. Chiropractors do not go through the rotations or internship like an MD. It is like starting medical school with the foreknowledge that you are going to be an orthopedic surgeon, and therefore your training is job specific.

As far as ART goes. It is a good technique, but not the only one that works.

Regarding weekend seminars. This is the case with all professions including the DO, MD, DC, DPT, DDS, or DMD. You know how your doctor knows what new medication to prescribe, the drug rep. verbally told him. All without a weekend seminar.

Hopefully this helps to clear up some of the aforementioned misconceptions.

My dad is a chiropractor. I am 34 years old. I have been adjusted once a week, give or take, since birth. I suppose I am healthy.

I get plenty aches and pains of course. I hobble out of bed in the morning like someone twice my age. I run quite a lot. Oh, and I shovel plenty of snow too this time of year. I say, "Dad, my back is killing me." He says, "So. What is it you think I can do?" It is a good thing I don't pay this chiropractor. But I do take him out for dinner once a week.

All I want is my body to reach and work to its full potential naturally. What is its full potential? I am not quite sure. What can I do to get it their naturally? That, I know. That is easy.

My chiropractor treats and analyzes the entire body, but mostly the central nervous system. Any job in which you need to fix something requires you to correctly analyze the root cause. Most of the time people/doctors/chiropractors don't know the root cause of aches, disease, pains. They'll say its a "high school football injury", or "from running" or, the "shovelling snow" excuse. If you treat just the symptoms you’ll find yourself on the never-get-fixed roundabout.

I am fortunate that my chiropractor doesn't say he can cure anything. In fact, if I remember correctly, I remember him telling me, "Only the body cures." I was younger when he told me that, but I still remember it clearly.

Chiropractors/chiropractic comes in all shapes and sizes. I am sure many of the stories in this post are true. If an alien came to Nashville today and was told what music is, and what musicians are, well, they would certainly form a quick opinion. But if his alien friend went to Jamica today, and was told what music is, and what musicians are, well... there you go.

Portland, Well said Doctor.

In canada Dc's are a portal of entry into the health care system rather than primary care physician. I personally feel more comfortable with portal of entry designation because it reflects the professions willingness / desire to collaborate with other practitioners. do you concur?

I tried to post the art provider link to help guide individuals to sports medicine minded dc's.

While i still believe that is a useful tool, wouldn't it be great to have a directory of excellent dc's physio's etc available for letsrun readers to utilize. we are all runners and most of us have had good experiences in overcoming injuries, why not share who was helpful.

wejo/rojo ? you do mention in your Dr. Galea article that you looked to letsrun for guidance at one time, why not centralize and back up with recommendations the information.

Well for one, if everyone else knew about the guy I went to, I might never be able to get another appointment!

for the life of me, I cannot figure out why anyone with health insurance would go to a chiropractor. Neurologists and neuro surgeons are the way to go for professional help. A Medical Doctor is someone who can write prescriptions. If they cannot, then they are not a medical doctor. Thats the bottom line, a chiropractor is a quack with a year more of school then a f***ing nurse.

When I worked in Park City, UT many of my clients said they were leaving their chiropractors for the massage therapist. I thought great, I should charge more..

Jzs

LMT

[quote]wish436 wrote:

A Medical Doctor is someone who can write prescriptions. quote]

Hey f+*&%tard, not getting a "PRESCRIPTION" is WHY we go to chiros or massage therapists.

yes, dipshit. I am saying if you have a legit injury always go to a medical doctor. You may not need a prescription but the ultimate mark of a medical doctor is their ability to provide actual medical help, not some quack folding table and arms movements, but science, x-ray, cat scan, MRI, tests that only a medical doctor can order. Go f*** yourself anyway, douchebag and go to your glorified nurse

wish - your ignorance is laughable.

#1 many Dc's can order mri's ct's bone scans and take their own xrays. in some places they can take blood, do injections and do urinalysis.

#2. many medical doctors work with chiros and pt's because they are better trained to deal with msk complaints allowing the medical doctor to focus on areas that he/she is better trained.

#3. dr. galea probably north america's premiere sports medicine doctor utilizes chiro's pt' and all other types of health care providers.

#4. are nurses less valuable to health care than doctors? i think without them the system wouldn't work, just like with out other practitioners the system won't work.

I have not done research but I have had experiences that have helped me see things in certain light. I am also in the exercise field, have some graduate classes completed in the field of exercise and wellness, and have been a runner my whole life. I have had running injuries and I've gone to PT, Chiro and even Orthopedic surgeon for something that required surgery. I think that when you are talking about wellness and function, every health professional has their role. I do think there is a need for Chiropractic care in America. My problem is when a professional doesn't know and willingly accept their role. Why can't they accept the fact that I only want to visit them when I can feel a problem in my spine that requires adjusting??!! What is so terrible about their role in the wellness field that they find so hard accept? No, they want to be doctors and physical therapists and provide pain medication (which is still illegal, but for how long?)

Chiro's definitely have a role to play, but when they tell you they can cure things that they cannot, that is when I have a problem. They sit there and show you all the imperfections of your body by pointing to things on an Xray, I have news, my body is never going to be perfect, even with 24/7 treatment of all sorts. There are things that PT's can't cure, there are things orthopedic surgeons can't cure, and those professionals will admit that. But you will never hear a Chiro say that they can't cure something. And if you doubt them, well, we don't even want to go there. And while we may need that type of positivity in our Government, it isn't right to give someone, a patient perhaps, false hopes and a bigger credit card bill (or just take their money, whatever the case is). The other red flag from the Chiro is that they will tell you to repeat visits until Jesus comes back, but they will not give you any nutrition or exercise advice yet they WILL prescribe physical therapies right there in the office when they don't have proper certification or credentials for that!! I don't care how many hours of classes you took in school, it's what you do, not how long you studied what you were going to do. If an airplane pilot took 4,000 hrs of courses about flying, I only care about one thing, their flight record and current sobriety.

If you don't agree with me, that is fine. But this is just my viewpoint.