Authentic Training Log - Seb Coe

I'm not young... I'm just not British (believe it or not, but the Coe phenomenon has not been built quite as much in other countries as it has been in Britain). Look at these two lists, you'll see what I mean:

800m All Time

WR 1:41.11 Wilson Kipketer DEN Köln, 24 08 1997

Updated as at: 24/11/2003

Mark Wind Athlete Nat Birth Pos Venue Date

1:41.11 Wilson Kipketer DEN 12 12 1972 1 Köln 24 08 1997

1:41.24 Wilson Kipketer 1r1 Zürich 13 08 1997

1:41.73 Sebastian Coe GBR 29 09 1956 1 Firenze 10 06 1981

1:41.73 Wilson Kipketer 1 Stockholm 07 07 1997

1:41.77 Joaquim Cruz BRA 12 03 1963 1 Köln 26 08 1984

1:41.83 Wilson Kipketer 1 Rieti 01 09 1996

1:42.17 Wilson Kipketer 1 Tokyo 16 09 1996

1:42.20 Wilson Kipketer 1 Bruxelles 22 08 1997

1:42.27 Wilson Kipketer 1 Bruxelles 03 09 1999

1:42.28 Sammy Koskei KEN 14 05 1961 2 Köln 26 08 1984

1:42.32 Wilson Kipketer 1 Rieti 08 09 2002

1:42.33 Sebastian Coe 1 Oslo 05 07 1979

1:42.34 Joaquim Cruz 1r1 Zürich 22 08 1984

1:42.34 Wilfred Bungei KEN 24 07 1980 2 Rieti 08 09 2002

1:42.41 Joaquim Cruz 1 Bruxelles 24 08 1984

1:42.47 Yuriy Borzakovskiy RUS 12 04 1981 1 Bruxelles 24 08 2001

1:42.49 Joaquim Cruz 1 Koblenz 28 08 1985

1:42.51 Wilson Kipketer 1 Nice 10 07 1996

1:42.52 Wilfred Bungei 1 Bruxelles 05 09 2003

1:42.54 Joaquim Cruz 1 Köln 25 08 1985

1:42.55 André Bucher SUI 19 10 1976 1r1 Zürich 17 08 2001

1:42.57 Wilson Kipketer 1 Monaco 04 08 1999

1:42.58 Vebjørn Rodal NOR 16 09 1972 1 Atlanta, GA 31 07 1996

1:42.59 Wilson Kipketer 1 Monaco 10 08 1996

1:42.60 Johnny Gray USA 19 06 1960 2r1 Koblenz 28 08 1985

1:42.61 Wilson Kipketer 1r1 Zürich 14 08 1996

1:42.61 Wilson Kipketer 1 Lausanne 02 07 1997

1:42.62 Patrick Ndururi KEN 12 01 1969 2r1 Zürich 13 08 1997

1:42.69 Japheth Kimutai KEN 20 12 1978 3 Bruxelles 03 09 1999

1:42.69 Hezekiél Sepeng RSA 30 06 1974 2 Bruxelles 03 09 1999

1:42.79 Frederick Onyancha KEN 25 12 1969 3 Atlanta, GA 31 07 1996

1:42.81 Jean-Patrick Nduwimana BDI 09 05 1978 2r1 Zürich 17 08 2001

1:42.85 Norberto Téllez CUB 22 01 1972 4 Atlanta, GA 31 07 1996

1:42.88 Steve Cram GBR 14 10 1960 1r1 Zürich 21 08 1985

1:42.89 Mbulaeni Mulaudzi RSA 08 09 1980 2 Bruxelles 05 09 2003

1:42.91 William Yiampoy KEN 17 05 1974 3 Rieti 08 09 2002

1:42.97 Peter Elliott GBR 09 10 1962 1 Sevilla 30 05 1990

1:42.98 Patrick Konchellah KEN 20 04 1968 2 Köln 24 08 1997

1:43.03 Kennedy Kimwetich KEN 01 01 1973 2r1 Stuttgart 19 07 1998

1:43.06 Billy Konchellah KEN 20 10 1961 1 Roma 01 09 1987

1:43.08 José Luiz Barbosa BRA 27 05 1961 1 Rieti 06 09 1991

1:43.09 Djabir Saïd-Guerni ALG 29 03 1977 5 Bruxelles 03 09 1999

1:43.15 Mehdi Baala FRA 17 08 1978 5 Rieti 08 09 2002

1:43.16 Paul Ereng KEN 22 08 1967 1 Zürich 16 08 1989

1:43.17 Benson Koech KEN 10 11 1974 1 Rieti 28 08 1994

1:43.20 Mark Everett USA 02 09 1968 1 Linz 09 07 1997

1:43.22 Pawel Czapiewski POL 30 03 1978 5r1 Zürich 17 08 2001

1:43.26 Sammy Langat KEN 24 01 1970 1r2 Zürich 14 08 1996

1:43.30 William Tanui KEN 22 02 1964 2 Rieti 06 09 1991

1:43.31 Nixon Kiprotich KEN 04 12 1962 1 Rieti 06 09 1992

1:43.33 Robert Chirchir KEN 26 11 1972 3r1 Stuttgart 19 07 1998

1:43.33 William Chirchir KEN 06 02 1979 6 Bruxelles 03 09 1999

1:43.33 Joseph Mutua KEN 10 12 1978 1r1 Zürich 16 08 2002

1:43.35 David Mack USA 30 05 1961 3r1 Koblenz 28 08 1985

1:43.38 David Kiptoo KEN 26 06 1965 2 Monaco 10 08 1996

1:43.38 Rich Kenah USA 04 08 1970 3r1 Zürich 13 08 1997

1:43.38 Arthémon Hatungimana BDI 21 01 1974 3 Bruxelles 24 08 2001

1:43.44 Alberto Juantorena CUB 03 12 1950 1 Sofia 21 08 1977

1:43.5 Rick Wohlhuter USA 23 12 1948 1 Eugene, OR 08 06 1974

1:43.50 Mahjoub Haïda MAR 01 07 1970 2 Roma 14 07 1998

1:43.54 William Wuyke VEN 21 05 1958 Rieti 07 09 1986

1:43.55 Philip Kibitok KEN 23 03 1971 3 Rieti 01 09 1996

1:43.56 Rob Druppers NED 29 04 1962 4 Köln 25 08 1985

1:43.57 Mike Boit KEN 06 01 1949 1 Berlin 20 08 1976

1:43.57 Joseph Tengelei KEN 08 12 1972 4 Zürich 16 08 1995

1:43.60 Abdi Bile SOM 28 12 1962 3 Zürich 16 08 1989

1:43.62 Earl Jones USA 17 07 1964 2r1 Zürich 13 08 1986

1:43.63 Agberto Guimarães BRA 18 08 1957 3 Koblenz 29 08 1984

1:43.65 Willi Wülbeck FRG 18 12 1954 1 Helsinki 09 08 1983

1:43.65 Laban Rotich KEN 20 01 1969 4r1 Stuttgart 19 07 1998

1500m All Time

WR 3:26.00 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR Roma, 14 07 1998

Updated as at: 24/11/2003

Mark Wind Athlete Nat Birth Pos Venue Date

3:26.00 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14 09 1974 1 Roma 14 07 1998

3:26.12 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Bruxelles

3:26.34 Bernard Lagat KEN 12 12 1974 2 Bruxelles 24 08 2001

3:26.45 Hicham El Guerrouj 1r1 Zürich 12 08 1998

3:26.89 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Zürich 16 08 2002

3:26.96 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Rieti 08 09 2002

3:27.21 Hicham El Guerrouj 1r1 Zürich 11 08 2000

3:27.34 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Monaco 19 07 2002

3:27.37 Noureddine Morceli ALG 28 02 1970 1 Nice 12 07 1995

3:27.52 Noureddine Morceli 1 Monaco 25 07 1995

3:27.65 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Sevilla 24 08 1999

3:27.91 Bernard Lagat 2 Monaco 19 07 2002

3:28.12 Noah Ngeny KEN 02 11 1978 2r1 Zürich 11 08 2000

3:28.37 Noureddine Morceli 1 Monaco 09 09 1995

3:28.37 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Monaco 08 08 1998

3:28.38 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Paris 06 07 2001

3:28.40 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Bruxelles 05 09 2003

3:28.51 Bernard Lagat 3r1 Zürich 11 08 2000

3:28.57 Hicham El Guerrouj 1r1 Zürich 11 08 1999

3:28.73 Noah Ngeny 2 Sevilla 24 08 1999

3:28.84 Noah Ngeny 1 Paris 21 07 1999

3:28.86 Noureddine Morceli 1 Rieti 06 09 1992

3:28.91 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Zürich 13 08 1997

3:28.92 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Bruxelles 22 08 1997

3:28.93 Noah Ngeny 1 München 11 09 1999

3:28.95 Fermín Cacho ESP 16 02 1969 2 Zürich 13 08 1997

3:28.98 Mehdi Baala FRA 17 08 1978 2 Bruxelles 05 09 2003

3:29.05 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Bruxelles 23 08 1996

3:29.06 Hicham El Guerrouj 1r1 Zürich 17 08 2001

3:29.08 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Rieti 02 09 2001

3:29.12 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Oslo 09 07 1998

3:29.13 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Zürich 15 08 2003

3:29.18 Vénuste Niyongabo BDI 09 12 1973 2 Bruxelles 22 08 1997

3:29.19 Noah Ngeny 1 Bruxelles 03 09 1999

3:29.20 Noureddine Morceli 1 Narbonne 20 06 1993

3:29.27 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Paris 14 09 2002

3:29.29 William Chirchir KEN 06 02 1979 3 Bruxelles 24 08 2001

3:29.30 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Stockholm 07 07 1997

3:29.43 Vénuste Niyongabo 3 Zürich 13 08 1997

3:29.46 Saïd Aouita MAR 02 11 1959 1 Berlin 23 08 1985

3:29.46 Daniel Komen KEN 17 05 1976 1 Monaco 16 08 1997

3:29.50 Noureddine Morceli 1 Paris 28 06 1996

3:29.51 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Hengelo 31 05 1997

3:29.51 Ali Saïdi-Sief ALG 15 03 1978 1 Lausanne 04 07 2001

3:29.57 Noureddine Morceli 1+ Rieti 05 09 1993

3:29.59 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Stockholm 08 07 1996

3:29.67 Steve Cram GBR 14 10 1960 1 Nice 16 07 1985

3:29.67 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Bruxelles 28 08 1998

3:29.71 Saïd Aouita 2 Nice 16 07 1985

3:29.72 Hicham El Guerrouj 1+ Oslo 04 07 1997

3:29.76 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Roma 11 07 2003

3:29.77 Sydney Maree USA 09 09 1956 1 Köln 25 08 1985

3:29.77 Sebastian Coe GBR 29 09 1956 1 Rieti 07 09 1986

3:29.79 Noah Ngeny 1 Monaco 04 08 1999

3:29.85 Hicham El Guerrouj 1+ Roma 29 06 2001

3:29.91 Laban Rotich KEN 20 01 1969 2r1 Zürich 12 08 1998

3:29.95 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Bruxelles 30 08 2002

3:29.96 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Paris 05 07 2002

3:29.99 Noureddine Morceli 1 Rieti 01 09 1996

3:29.99 Noah Ngeny 1 Roma 30 06 2000

3:30.00 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Berlin 06 09 2002

3:30.06 Noureddine Morceli 1 Zürich 04 08 1993

3:30.06 Laban Rotich 2 Monaco 08 08 1998

3:30.07 Rui Silva POR 03 08 1977 3 Monaco 19 07 2002

3:30.18 John Kibowen KEN 21 04 1969 3r1 Zürich 12 08 1998

3:30.24 Cornelius Chirchir KEN 05 06 1983 4 Monaco 19 07 2002

3:30.55 Abdi Bile SOM 28 12 1962 1 Rieti 03 09 1989

3:30.57 Reyes Estévez ESP 02 08 1976 3 Sevilla 24 08 1999

3:30.58 William Tanui KEN 22 02 1964 3 Monaco 16 08 1997

3:30.67 Benjamin Kipkurui KEN 28 12 1980 2 Monaco 20 07 2001

3:30.72 Paul Korir KEN 15 07 1977 3 Bruxelles 05 09 2003

3:30.77 Steve Ovett GBR 09 10 1955 1 Rieti 04 09 1983

3:30.83 Fouad Chouki FRA 01 10 1978 3 Zürich 15 08 2003

3:30.92 José Luís Gonzalez ESP 08 12 1957 3 Nice 16 07 1985

3:30.94 Isaac Viciosa ESP 26 12 1969 5 Monaco 08 08 1998

3:30.99 Robert Rono KEN 16 08 1978 3 Bruxelles 30 08 2002

3:31.01 Jim Spivey USA 07 03 1960 1 Koblenz 28 08 1988

3:31.13 José Manuel Abascal ESP 17 03 1958 1 Barcelona 16 08 1986

3:31.17 Robert Kiplagat Andersen DEN 12 12 1972 5 Zürich 13 08 1997

3:31.21 José Antonio Redolat ESP 17 02 1976 1 Stockholm 17 07 2001

3:31.28 Enock Koech KEN 04 04 1981 3r1 Zürich 17 08 2001

3:31.40 William Kemei KEN 22 02 1969 2 Nice 12 07 1995

3:31.42 Alex Kipchirchir KEN 26 11 1984 5 Bruxelles 05 09 2003

3:31.45 Driss Maazouzi FRA 15 10 1969 6 Monaco 19 07 2002

3:31.48 Azzeddine Seddiki MAR 21 05 1970 3 Köln 18 08 1995

3:31.48 Andrés Díaz ESP 12 07 1969 2 Monaco 18 08 2000

3:31.52 Steve Holman USA 02 03 1970 6 Bruxelles 22 08 1997

3:31.53 David Lelei KEN 10 05 1971 3 Stuttgart 19 07 1998

3:31.54 Isaac Songok KEN 25 04 1984 1 Heusden-Zolder 02 08 2003

3:31.58 Thomas Wessinghage GER 22 02 1952 2 Koblenz 27 08 1980

3:31.61 Juan Carlos Higuero ESP 03 08 1978 6 Bruxelles 05 09 2003

3:31.70 Alí Hakimi TUN 24 04 1976 7 Bruxelles 22 08 1997

3:31.71 Kevin Sullivan CAN 20 03 1974 4 Roma 30 06 2000

3:31.75 Pierre Délèze SUI 25 09 1958 1 Zürich 21 08 1985

3:31.76 Steve Scott USA 05 05 1956 4 Nice 16 07 1985

3:31.86 John Mayock GBR 26 10 1970 8 Bruxelles 22 08 1997

3:31.87 Stephen Kipkorir KEN 24 10 1970 2 Lausanne 03 07 1996

3:31.89 Sammy Rono KEN 1974 4 Stuttgart 19 07 1998

3:31.93 David Krummenacker USA 24 05 1975 2 Stockholm 16 07 2002

3:31.96 Harald Hudak FRG 28 01 1957 3 Koblenz 27 08 1980

3:31.96 Simon Doyle AUS 09 11 1966 2 Stockholm 03 07 1991

3:31.96 Paul Bitok KEN 26 06 1970 3 Stockholm 17 07 2001

3:32.01 Ivan Heshko UKR 19 08 1979 3 Ostrava 12 06 2003

3:32.06 Nadir Bosch FRA 16 05 1973 4 Paris 21 07 1999

3:32.07 Elijah Kipruto Maru KEN 12 06 1976 4 Rieti 01 09 1996

3:32.09 Benson Koech KEN 10 11 1974 2 Bruxelles 03 09 1999

3:32.10 Mohamed Suleiman QAT 23 11 1969 8 Zürich 13 08 1997

3:32.13 David Kibet KEN 24 11 1963 2 Rieti 06 09 1992

3:32.16 Filbert Bayi TAN 23 06 1953 1 Christchurch 02 02 1974

I think I see what you mean. It's just that I have a hard time taking a guy who set the WR 9 times and saying he wasn't a great record runner. His 800 stood for 16 years I believe and I think his thousand is still pretty tough. Five times he ran a world record at either 15 or mile. I don't consider Bannister or Snell any less great because their times aren't on the top 50 list today. I think the same is true of Coe. He didn't compete against the future, he competed against his present and did it better than just about anyone both in Olympics and Records.

Malmo, was yesterday your "find math errors and express outrage" day?? Good job on catching those marathon pace calculation errors, I will rest easier tonight. But, I think you jumped the gun on lambasting the Coe?s math.

"Flamboyant," really, at this point someone HAS to ask: what the F? is your point???? Lets? review the #?s shall we children?

Week 1 ? 38 miles

"Tue 10 July: Fly 18 hours from England to Chicago; easy, yet steady PM run @6:00 to 6:30 per mile pace to get refreshed." ?? We have no idea how long this was. Let?s call it 5, he was just refreshing himself and clearly was not running many longer runs this week. Let?s give the Coe low mileage #?s the benefit of the doubt. Innocent until proven guilty.

5

"Wed 11 July: AM Tempo session to ease into faster pace and couple this with some speed endurance ? 3x1600 m @4:40 pace, 3 min recovery, cool-down of two laps @90 sec pace followed by easy jogging."

Now yes, there can be conjecture here, but let?s give benefit of the doubt here to the possibility of Coes? low mileage #?s. Coe may have recovered without jogging, or jogging much. Some runners do that, including Marius B.when he does his favorite LT/AT repeats. Marius takes a standing rest(he told me so himself). But I will, just to satisfy the naysayers, say that Coe jogged a 400 between each repeat. AND, will round up. So? say 4 miles for 3 x 1600, .5 for "2 laps cooldown" and 1 mile easy jogging. That?s 5.5. Let?s say a 1 mile Warm up. NO ONE counts warm-up sprints, please. This is a 6.5 mile day counting warm-ups, cool-downs and jogs between intervals.

6.5

"Thu 12 July: AM easy recovery run of 6 miles; PM a tempo session to turn Wednesday?s AM tempo session into a continuous run ? 3 miles in 14:30"

That?s 9, that?s simple.

9

"Fri 13 July: Introduction to race pace, but not deeply anaerobic ? after warm-up, 30x200 m @27/28 seconds; cool-down of two laps @ 9-sec pace followed by easy jogging."

Again, these 200?s could have had standing rests. Again, believe it or not, 800 guys especially do not jog a lot between repeats. So 30 x 200 = 3.75. You insist on adding in 50 meter jogs in between?? OK, fine, that?s almost a mile. So we got 4.75. With short warm-up and warm-down, you might get no more than 6. But we will call it 7 if you want-

7

"Sat 14 July: Lengthening the short-distance intervals and speed, but keeping good recovery ? after warm-up, 2x(3x300 m) @39 sec, with 2 min recovery, 9 min between sets, cool-down of 2 laps @90-sec pace followed by easy jogging."

6 300 = 1800 meters. That?s 1.125 miles. You insist that Seb jogged between sets?? Ok, DOUBLE that to 2.5. He jogged a mile before and after?? Fine. 4.5.

4.5

Sun: 15 July: Easy run of 6 miles for recovery, rest rehabilitation and ?charging the battery? "

6

Now Malmo, and the rest, please help me out here. Let?s add up the mileage, shall we?

5 +6.5+9+7+4.5+6 = DRUM ROLL, please????38. WHOOPEEEE!!!! AND folks I added in warm-ups and warm-downs on his interval days. Believe it or not, not everyone does a huge warm-up for a quality workout. Some do calisthentics, active stretching, maybe some plyos. There are more ways to warm-up than to simply jog. But I STILL added some miles on those days to satisfy the cynics. And almost no one does a warm-up before a simple 6 mile run, so spare me that BS. AND?Even though I said many runners do take standing/walking breaks between quality intervals, and Coe COULD have done that, I still added in some jogging between ALL of his intervals just to be safe. And after all those additions?..his mileage still came out to exactly the total he had listed.

WHAT SAYETH YOU NOW????? Martin was right.

The point is, the reality of his mileage #?s could have been damn close to what he listed. So all you cynics really have ZERO to stand on except "I heard this" and "Seb?s Dad said this, therefore I interpret it to mean that" blah, blah, blah.

Why is it sooooooooo hard to accept that there exceptions to some rules??? You people are still under the oldest misconception in the book: that there is only ONE way to train, and anyone who did not train that way must have been lying. For crissakes!

Krumm and Spivey(just to name a few) were 3:31 runners, and they generally trained at under 60 miles a week too! Coe focused on the 800 a lot, and had 47 400 speed. AND he did tons of weights and plyos and other fitness activities, and lastly did lots and lots of quality, so with all that, why is it beyond imagination that he rarely ran over 60 miles a week. WHY??????? It isn?t.

Of course you are right, it is all about setting new limits, and Coe certainly was in uncharted waters...

But, for a start, his 1500m and 800m times do not really correlate.

Then, looking at the times posted by Kipketer, or El G, it shows clearly that their progression is made in small increments through a lot of very fast races...

Could Coe's few world class marks (by today's standards) stem from his training methods which only allowed him to peak very occasionally?

You're saying his 8 was superior to his 15 and I agree. As far as only peaking for a few races, I've always admired that in any runner. Lasse Viren for example -- Mr. Olympics. Even Mirtus Yifter. Remember that Coe lost like two whole years of his prime running to illness. He wasn't even supposed to be on that 1984 team. We can only guess what he might have posted had he raced in '82 and '83 healthy.

Well, I did not even look at week 1, to tell you the truth, given that there was one day missing (the Monday).

Even so, I've never personally done a 1M warm up or warm down (6mins warm up before a speed session??!!)

Also: Look at the Thursday session. 3 miles tempo run in 14:30 without any warm up or warm down??? Coe turns up at the track and runs 3M in 14:30 and that's it?

You have him do sessions that last between 15mins and -what- 40mins at most, and this does not seem strange to you?

Peter Coe advocated a 2mile WU and WD so I wwould hazard a guess that Seb did at least that amount.

PBs

400m 46:87 1979 (London)  

500m 1:02:40 1978 (Prague)

600m 1:15:00 1981 (Florence)

600m(i) 1:18:33 1983 (Cosford)                             

800m 1:41:73 1981 (Firenze)   

800m(i) 1:44:91 1983 (Oslo)                               

1000m 2:12:18 1981 (Oslo) 

1000m(i) 2:18:58 1983 (Oslo)     

1500m 3:29:77 1988 (Rieti)

1500m(i) 3:42:60 1983 (Cosford)

1mile 3:47:33 1981 (Brusels)

2000m 4:58:84 1982 (Bordeaux)

3000m(i) 7:54:32 1986 (Cosford)    

World Records (12!!!)

800m 1:42:33 1979 (Oslo)

800m 1:41:73 1981 (Florence)

800m(i) 1:46:81 1981 (Cosford)

800m(i) 1:44:91 1983 (Oslo)

1000m 2:13:40 1980 (Oslo)

1000m 2:12:18 1981 (Oslo)

1000m(i) 2:18:58 1983 (Oslo)

1500m 3:32:03 1979 (Zurich)    

1mile 3:48:95 1979 (Oslo)

1mile 3:48:53 1981 (Zurich)

1mile 3:47:33 1981 (Brusels)

4x800m 7:03:89 1982 (Peter Elliott 1:49.14, Garry Cook 1:46.20, Steve Cram 1:44.54, Sebastian Coe 1:44.01)

Medals

1975 Eur. junior Cha. Athens 1500m bronze

1978 Eur. Champ. Prague 800m bronze

1980 Oly. Games Moscow 800m silver

1980 Oly. Games Moscow 1500m gold

1982 Eur. Champ Athens 800m silver

1984 Oly. Games L. Angeles 800m silver

1984 Oly. Games L. Angeles 1500m gold

1986 Eur. Champ. Stuttgart 800m gold

1986 Eur. Champ. Stuttgart 1500m silver

That's an awesome 4x800. Shame they didn't Ovett too.

flamboyant wrote: I'm not young... I'm just not British (believe it or not, but the Coe phenomenon has not been built quite as much in other countries as it has been in Britain).

I'm 36 and live in the US but I remember those two trading world records back and forth. It used to be in the papers up here in Boston all the time. An exciting time.

No doubt not as big as it was in the UK, though.

That 4x800 is insane!

That's a team that could have run inside 7min. I liked watching that race because the 'B' team put 15m on the 'A' team during Elliot's leg.

Peter Elliot: 1:49.x

Gary Cooke: 1:45.x

Steve Cram: 1:44.x

Seb Coe: 1:43.9

If you sub Ovett in for Elliot you've got a 6:59-6:58 team.

The GB B team that day ran 7:11.62 (Rob Harrison 1:47.83, Steve Caldwell 1:49.04, Chris McGeorge 1:45.91, Graham Williamson 1:48.84)

There's a photo I've seen printed a few times that shows the winning quartet standing under the scoreboard. Coe, Cram and Cook are all smiling away looking very happy, while at one end Elliot looks like a real miserable sod. He had an off day and was obviously cheesed off that everyone in the B team ran quicker than he did! Still the world record though.

Bazza

I'm just in the throes of contradicting some of the nonsense that's spread on both this and the previous Coe training thread - there's been so much that I've not really been prepared to answer until now.

Before I do ... I'd like to hear your thoughts on the issues, given that:

A) Like me, you grew up in the Coe/Ovett/Cram era.

B) You're not biased as a Coe supporter (I think you've referred to him in the past as an arrogant tosser, if I'm not wrong.

Thanks

Martin

Martin

Hi Martin,

Yes I did call him that. Perhaps I bit harsh. I only met him the once and that was a on train. But I've heard plenty of stories about. I know a few guys that trained and raced with him many times. Still, if anyone had reason to be arrogant it was Coe. Strange that there's been so much written about Coe, and yet these arguments still abound. Just goes to prove what an influence he's been.

With regards to training I think it quite likely that he ran a few more miles than he is sometimes credited with. I'm certain however, that he was never what most of us would call a 'high mileage' runner. There is so much documented evidence about his training it seems churlish to question it.

My gut feeling is that he simply got it right. Right guy, with the right coach, the right environment, the right time. Everything just fell together. He was meticulously prepared and had a great ability to peak at the right time.

He was a machine when he raced and could win in any type of race - though of course he lost a few big races too. His strength in coming back from adversity is often overlooked - he had quite a few failures and disappointments.

And I think he could have gone a bit quicker 1500m and the mile.

That's all I can think of right now. I don't normally post at this time on a Sunday evening!

Oh, and a bit of trivia that I always found funny. and Coe, Ovett, Cram and Elliot are all Librans. How weird is that?

Bazza, Coe's arrogance, that's what I liked about him.

Well, on the track anyway.

I was tempted to begin with a week-by-week breakdown of the mileage in the work-outs and that listed by Coe in the log: but that got pretty boring after the first week in the example I posted.

By adding the totals of the workouts that are on the page (N.B. ? the actual numbers on the page, not what *you* envisage the warm-ups or cool-downs to be, nor the number of steps you think Coe didn?t count on his way to the toilets and back) you come up with a figure of 30.29 miles.

Coe lists week one?s total to be 38 miles.

That, in my mind, is enough cushion to put to rest this idea of ?mystery miles? not added up in the weekly total.

(As an aside, is there really ANY top class athlete in the world who jogs three easy laps after an interval workout and says to him or herself ?Gee, I must add three quarters of a mile to my total today? I very much doubt it.)

Coe?s log has left a cushion for warm-ups and cool-downs and thus accurately reflects the actual mileage covered in a given week.

N.B. also that morning runs were both studiously included and commented upon by whomever wrote the diary (Peter didn?t travel to LA with Seb, he arrived a few weeks later) so I will completely and utterly reject any further remarks that suggest morning runs ?weren?t counted? by Peter and Seb.

In short, the numbers add up.

And Yes, Trackhead, I understand that the logs detail training late in the season, but the point I am trying to illustrate is this: if morning runs and ?cushions? were included in this phase of the training - when they were of less value - it would only stand to reason that they would be included in the base phase ? when you could make the argument that every mile counts.

Thus, by looking at this log, it?s pretty safe to conclude that a 65 mile total from, say, November, is an accurate reflection of the distance covered.

The example from ?Training Distance Runners? show us ? if at a different phase in the training ? the detail in which logs were kept and it simply makes no sense to assume that Peter ?didn?t count? morning runs or left 30 miles a week unaccounted for.

Now, to the larger points raised by flamboyant:

I had to copy and paste some of your comments onto a separate page in order to get them straight, because ? and I think you?ll agree ? you?ve not kept up the consistency of your initial argument.

(Your first post in the previous thread put Coe?s mileage at 100 per week, which you then rounded down a few posts later; you said it was easier to qualify for finals in the 80 and 84 games than it is today, you then backed away from that comment when it was challenged by others; et. al.)

Now ? I?ve never said a mid-mileage programme was the ONLY way to train a middle-distance runner - if you look at previous posts from me on the same topic, you?ll discover that I?ve often said that there?s ?more than one road to Rome?: durable athletes could benefit from higher mileage as their overall proportion of training, more fragile ones from fewer miles and more emphasis on strength and flexibility.

What annoyed me was your suggestion that today?s athlete couldn?t replicate Coe?s success on a mid-mileage programme.

I think that?s wrong.

(I should also add that I?ve no opinion on the training of a 5,000 metre runner. Nor for that matter, a 10,000 metre runner or a marathoner. I'm speaking strictly of the middle distances between 800 metres and the mile.)

In fact, as I think has been shown, Coe?s success as THE MOST successful middle-distance runner in history (from 800 to the mile) has yet to be replicated by anyone ? be they Kenyan, Moroccan or Spanish running 50, 75 or 100 + miles per week.

And this is the crux of this entire discussion:

We could argue until the proverbial bovines come home whether his weekly mileage totaled 50, 60 or 70.

We cannot, however, argue that they were 80, 90 or 100 ? at least no with any evidentiary support.

What is supported by the evidence is that Coe?s methods worked perfectly ? for HIM.

They produced records, medals and championships, pushed the barriers of sport and helped take Athletics as a sport off of the back (sports) pages and into the popular consciousness.

I don?t have to build the ?myth? of Coe?s success, as you?ve accused ? others have already done that for me. Coe?s place in history is secure, as is that of his Father.

And that place in history is not on the back of ?three freak performances? as you immaturely suggest; EIGHT individual world outdoor records, two indoor world records and four Olympic medals can hardly be described as a ?freak?.

Coe was a big-meet performer whose career was thwarted by injury in the off-championship years, and which curtailed his racing.

He also plied his trade in less sophisticated era without Golden Leagues, much less money and a nascent World Championships schedule.

So, as much as I enjoy this back-and-forth (and I genuinely mean that) JohnnyO is probably right when he says that this is starting to get a little boring.

I?ll leave you with the words of the great John Walker:

?Seb made his own destiny. Different runners all contribute at different times and everyone should be grateful. Steve Ovett should have won the 1,500 in Moscow, but didn?t believe in himself. Coe was so positive, he knew what he wanted and went after it. He did the impossible with two Olympic victories and I?d have to rank him top because of that.?

Martin

Martin - nice analysis...

still avoiding this issue though, why not include the slow running?

Just because Peter Coe says anything below 6 min miles isn't training?

ok it's recovery. but its still a part of the training for ****'s sake.