Michigan State XC

But Michigan State has the second or third most NCAA cross country championships in history. They're supposed to be good.

I agree and Illinois and Purdue are held back by head coaches who control the scholarship alottments where Drenth is 100% in charge. No excuses!

how it works wrote:

I agree and Illinois and Purdue are held back by head coaches who control the scholarship alottments where Drenth is 100% in charge. No excuses!

he has sunk more scholarship money in distance than any of his in-state rivals and didnt have have a big ten championship point last outdoor season to show for it. you would hope he could at least field a competitive team in cross country.

Really, you know how much scholarship each coach in the Big Ten has their athletes on. (If you would do a little research you might look at their roster and see they are well over 90% from Michigan. Do you think he might be somewhat limited to "Michigan" scholarship money?)

I mean seriously, if you have something against the guy just come out and say. Don't post random comments that you have nothing to back it up with.

I heard more Wisconsin runners drive red cars than anyone else in the Big Ten. Must mean red is a faster color.

More excuses. What Big 10 school isn't 90% of their overall track/xc roster from their given state?

Again, bottom line is it isn't about liking a guy or not. MSU has been in 7th-10th in cross country and track since Drenth arrived. That shouldn't be good enough.

For the love of God. Last year they were 6th and a handful of points from 4th. 2 years before that they were 4th. This is not difficult. They got beat up this year, but it's not an indication of where the program is going.

MSU MEN'S PROGRAM UNDER DRENTH'S "LEADERSHIP". Say what you want, there has been no progress toward fielding a competitive team.

Cross Country

2009 - 8th

2008 - 6th

2007 - 7th

2006 - 4th

2005 - 7th

2004 - 7th

6 yr average 6.5th place

Outdoor track

2009 - 8th

2008 - 8th

2007 - 9th

2006 - 9th

2005 - 9th

5 year average is 8.6th place

Indoor track

2009 - 8th

2008 - 10th

2007 - 9th

2006 - 9th

2005 - 9th

5 year average is 9th place

That is absolutely dismal and unexplainable from even the most loyal of alums. Downgrade Drenth to CC coach and get a real director in there!

drenth is good coach; just needs more time

watch wrote:

drenth is good coach; just needs more time

How much time does a coach need to show ANY sign of improvement? I'm not saying the guy has to be contending for championships (though not unreasonable for a really good coach), but you'd think top 50% after he has "his" recruits in place is fair.

If it hasn't happened if five years, it won't happen in 10. He'll retire having done nothing but talk about a change in "culture" or "attitude"... whoopie.

just wondering... wrote:

How much time does a coach need to show ANY sign of improvement? I'm not saying the guy has to be contending for championships (though not unreasonable for a really good coach), but you'd think top 50% after he has "his" recruits in place is fair.

If it hasn't happened if five years, it won't happen in 10. He'll retire having done nothing but talk about a change in "culture" or "attitude"... whoopie.

Hey Drenth-hater, why do you keep posting your vitriol under different names on here, keeping the thread going? Haven't you realized you're the only one criticizing? Maybe you should've run a little harder for him, been a little more dedicated.

Since you obviously ran for him, and he obviously called you out, you've obviously made it your mission to tear him down, but.. obviously... you're failing miserably. Drenth is a great coach.

I am NOT "just wondering", did not run for him, not a "drenth-hater". I regard him as a very good distance coach who has had success over many years in many different places. However, in CURRENT position, those FACTS are very poor and do in fact warrant criticism and hot seat. It has been 5 years and they have stunk in cross and especially track (along with Illinois and Iowa). Nobody can argue they're among these bottom 3 teams and have been throughout Drenth's tenure at MSU.

mcleaves wrote:

mpeterson wrote:

Not true.....I too ran for him and I never saw him "bully" anyone. He was a great role model and had a huge impact on me during and after college. I have nothing but respect for the man, and all of my teammates felt the same. He expected a lot and would certainly let you know if you weren't performing to his expectations. I would expect that from any coach at the college level. If you worked hard (no matter your talent), you earned his full support and confidence.

I agree, Coach Gibbard was an excellent role model.

Excellent role model if you want to be fat, drunk and stupid. Oops, forgot the vicious bastard part. My bad.

What will everyone complain about when MSU qualifies for Nationals on the men and women's side this weekend(probably 10 programs where this happens in the country)?

MY question about this is: the girls have done better the last five years. So when the womens program has success, is it the result of the athletes making progress and being committed and reaching their potential, or is it the result of Drenth guiding them?

Because some are complaining that Drenth has had unacceptable progress and that all these bottom-half finishes are his fault and responsibility, but who is responsible for the women's team's sucess?

It is the same guy leading both teams, and I say it is the athletes that make it happen.

And just because he can control the direction of money, what makes you think it has the highest impact to funnel it to distance runners?

The womens program is just having a down year, which shouldn't be a huge shocker after thier recent success. It happens.

However, the mens side is a completely different story. I remember hearing how everyone disliked Stinzi and that he was not liked at all. So, he left for greener pastures (actually red)and in comes Drenth and everyone in EL and the area was tickled to death. What do we see...nothing! And why is this?

I don't think the blame can be put entirely on Drenth. There are some solid runners on the mens squad, but I think when they get to the big party atmosphere of MSU, their eyes get wide and running is no longer a top priority. I mean MSU and its surrounding areas are full of great places to run, as well as a very supportinve running community. I think the athletes aren't giving Drenth and the program thier all, hence the reason they suck! I mean people go to Wisco to run, people go to MSU to party then run.

Unrelated (possiblity related) note: What the hell happened to Dustin Voss in college!?

The women's program is having a down year, or all the girls that Stintzi recruited have graduated? The fact of the matter is that before he left for Wisconsin, Stintzi brought in Doetzel, Bush, and Senakewich for the fall. All three ended up being studs at MSU and were a large part of Drenth's success on the women's side. Now that they have cycled through those athletes, we are seeing what addition people Walt has brought to MSU.

In addition I don't think it's fair to say that all of the MSU athletes didn't like Stintzi; in fact, most did. Many of the men on the team listened to his instructions to a T, but, for whatever reason, things just did not click. Still just 5 years before his departure, he had 3 sub 29 10K guys, an 8:43 steepler, and a 13:55 guy.

I also don't think it's fair to call MSU more of a party school than any other school in the area. OSU, IU, and UW are just as nationally recognized for there late night exploits and they have all had success over the past 10 years. I also remember hitting up a couple parties with the U of M guys and hearing about the Minnesota guys hitting the bottle pretty hard. The point here is nearly every college team, successful or not, has people on it who party. It is an easy cop out for a coach to say, "they run shitty because they drink." It sure didn't hurt all those Arkansas teams from the past.

Why didn't all this partying hurt Arkansas? Because they had what MSU no longer has...TALENT. MSU has received less and less quality talent over the last 5 years and that is the reason for their demise. Even though everyone on this thread is calling for his head, Walt Drenth is still a very good coach. But one of the weaknesses that he has, and he will admit this, is recruiting. He doesn't feel the need to sugar coat/sell his program. If you're into running and want to develop as a runner/person, you will get just that in his program. Unfortunately today's high profile recruit wants to be texted and see "nice race, you're going to be an Olympian" on their facebook wall. This will never be Walt Drenth and as a result, he will never get the talent necessary to take MSU further than a top 20 team at nationals.

Finally where are these resources at MSU and East Lansing? Are you referring to Baker Woodlot, the 1.5 mile arb, or the lovely paved Hawk Island Park? MSU is flat, layered with cement, and all of the great trails are at least a 15 minute drive away from campus. Similarly it's like pulling teeth to get on Forrest Akers and even when you do, you're dodging golf balls the entire run. Supportive running community, have you been to any of the home meets? I'm with you, Walt is a good coach, but to say that MSU athletes go there to drink and that's why they are performing poorly is ridiculous. When you recruit average guys and train them in a below average environment, you're not going to have much success regardless of how good of a coach you are.

Walt was named the director in June 2006. Here is the women's progession under his leadership.

Cross country

2009 – 5th

2008 – 3rd

2007 – 2nd

Indoor Track

2009 – 6th

2008 – 6th

2007 – 10th

Outdoor Track

2009 – 6th

2008 – 8th

2007 – 10th

Walt recruited me a few years back but didn't seem to see much improvement from a 16:10 5k guy. And it is a good thing I didn't go, because almost everyone from that class blew balls or quit/cut. College can make all runners better as long as there is a coach that knows how to develop them. Great GV examples:

Mandi Zemba- UP state champ out of high school

15:39 5k collegiate best

Nate Peck-16:20 high school best

14:00 5k collegiate best

*this is also Division 2(way less scholarship), which means the runners are there to run fast, not to be miss guided with more money.