Would Henry Rono be a contender today?

Gomer wrote:

Mister "On the Runs", why don't you quit now.

You already called me ignorant because I didn't know that Rono ran 13:06 as a drunk. Turns out it wasn't true. Sure he drank, but Malmo tells us that he trained his ass off for races.

So my point remains: He was a 13:06 guy. OK, less drinking, better tracks, etc...and the guy runs 12:50. Maybe!

Still well short of what our enhanced runners have been able to do.

I think that anyone who claims to know that Henry's potential was no better than 12:50 can properly be labeled as ignorant.

Nobody here knows what Henry could have done with less drinking, a more stable weight, better competition, pacemakers, or different incentives. Nobody.

Henry was off the charts in so many ways that it's difficult to assess his potential. Yes, Henry sometimes "trained his ass off for races," but that was sometimes because he hadn't run for months, was fifty pounds overweight and broke, and had made all kinds of promises to race directors in return for appearance fees. ("Fifty pounds overweight," by the way, is not hyperbole. I don't know how heavy he was when he outkicked Salazar in that famous 10,000-meter race in 1982, but he ran some races carrying an enormous amount of weight. I remember standing next to a really fat black guy with a really big belly at the start of a race back in the '80s, wondering what the hell this guy was doing there, and then realizing it was Henry only after the race announcer introduced him as the greatest runner in history. I could barely recognize his face under all of that extra fat.)

If his life had gone differently, and if time machines could have transported him twenty or thirty years into the future, could Henry have beaten speedsters like Geb and Bekele over 5,000 or 10,000 meters? The one answer that is almost certainly correct is this: Nobody knows.

My running was about poor management.It was just a talent without modern technogy.Poor eating habit.Poor training.Poor feet inside poor shoe.

Thats all I can tell you.

Henry

Wow!

Is this the real Henry Rono?

I am glad I started this thread now, as I feel I know a lot more about this amazing runner, if not having all the questions answered. He is a bit of an enigma really and it's perhaps the fact that no one can really tell what his true potential was (or might have been) that makes him all the more intriguing.

I agree with other posters who suggest that it's probably not fair to compare him to today's runners (sorry!), as there have been many developments since that negate a level playing field.

Yes Epopians

This is me!Look up one of the journalist,who interviewed me in December 1978 after breking four world records.He asked me what is it like and feels to be a champion?I told him, it is like and feel as been in jail. Why? Because of the things are missing in my life and I am under stress.

No good education no good Communication with the coach.

Training in higher level of education environment with expectation for me to perform well academically as the rich kids too.

So I was under pressure in all corners of my head.'Dont worry about these rich kids comes from the rich family,coach said in 1977.When he saw me depress,here is $20 go and enjoy yourself. I go to Gouger cottage for a beer,then another beer until midnigh.So order an humberger with cheese alot of french fries.

Are you saying thats the right way to live?

No head to think right, no head to eat well,no head to run well too.the following day hangover smiles beers.

I was in environment living as a prisoner, so to speak.

Please edit my writing.

Henry

King Henry

You must have some inkling of what you think you could have run for 1500, 3k, 5k & 10k from '78 -> '84 under ideal circumstances/progression

It would be an immense privilege to hear your thoughts !

( BTW, my father was Keino's boss in the Police back in mid/late '60s )

Simba Marrara !!!

Hi Henry,

As stated earlier on this thread, circumstances change greatly from era to era and eras can not be compared. We should also stay away from "would have", "should have" and "could have".

What we should do is thank the great champions of the past for making our great sport what it is today. I thank you!

I appreciate your telling it like it was.

Orville

Henry Rono: Practically illiterate at English composition (how they hell did he ever get into WSU, he could not get in today.)

Henry Rono: One has to wonder.

Now, no one over react, I like Henry Rono, I'm just saying those were the good old days for getting into school without much in attention to academic standards.

You are an idiot to make this charge. I spent alot of time with various national class kenyans while they were in the ncaaa, during the college years back then; and there was one thing they all had on common (besides talent); they were all serious students who spent more time studying and took their college opportunity more seriously than the american kids on campus. I have never heard that rono was like the stereotype of the 'just pass 'em through' football or basketball star. Not at all.

70s guy... wrote:

Henry Rono: Practically illiterate at English composition (how they hell did he ever get into WSU, he could not get in today.)

Henry Rono: One has to wonder.

Now, no one over react, I like Henry Rono, I'm just saying those were the good old days for getting into school without much in attention to academic standards.

You are an idiot to make this charge. I spent alot of time with various national class kenyans while they were in the ncaaa, during the college years back then; and there was one thing they all had on common (besides talent); they were all serious students who spent more time studying and took their college opportunity more seriously than the american kids on campus. I have never heard that rono was like the stereotype of the 'just pass 'em through'

football or basketball star. Not at all.

I had several classes with Rono at WSU. He always showed up and seemed to take his classes seriously. I have no idea what his grades were, but I had near perfect attendance and hewas always in class, unless on a track or cross country trip.

70s guy... wrote:

Henry Rono: Practically illiterate at English composition (how they hell did he ever get into WSU, he could not get in today.)

Henry Rono: One has to wonder.

Now, no one over react, I like Henry Rono, I'm just saying those were the good old days for getting into school without much in attention to academic standards.

You are an idiot to make this charge. I spent alot of time with various national class kenyans while they were in the ncaaa, during the college years back then; and there was one thing they all had on common (besides talent); they were all serious students who spent more time studying and took their college opportunity more seriously than the american kids on campus. I have never heard that rono was like the stereotype of the 'just pass 'em through' football or basketball star. Not at all.

Exactly how much of an idiot am I to "make this charge" when Henry has stated as much himself? Malmo has posted it on this very thread.

The person we are criticizing is NOT Henry.

It is "that sleaze" Chaplin, and the system that allowed Henry to get by without getting a valuable education.

What should have happened:

Once Chaplin got Henry into WSU he should have gotten Henry English tutors, counselors and at the first sign of alcohol trouble -- gotten Henry a shrink. THIS is what should have happened instead of giving him 20 dollar bills and sending him to the local campus drinking hole.

20 bucks back then, is like 60 today. That could have bought Henry 3 hours of tutors a day, at least. Henry needed support, handling, a mentor. A true mentor, not an opportunist like Chaplin.

There are only two ways to read Henry's comments (here and in his biography), he's either a total victim, or a total blame shifter. Seeing how he was a young man from a foreign country and culture with a tribal background, and knowing that Chaplin was a power hungry control freak, I tend to side with Henry.

Henry was let down by both Chaplin and the system. It is too bad he can't get a lawyer to over turn the statute of limitations and sue WSU.

I believe Henry, (and Malmo) for that matter. Read the whole thread before you go slinging the "idiot word," because you only make yourself a convincing idiot by not doing so.

You know it is possible to say that Henry was given a pass into WSU, that Henry was given a pass in classes at WSU, that Henry was not up to it in English Comp, and to still COMPLETELY be in Henry's corner.

Again, the culprit is Chaplin, NOT HENRY.

Henry was a foreign rube, a stranger in a strange land, horribly taken advantage of by a bad actor named John Chaplin.

Note to HENRY:

Henry, please read any criticism on these threads where you are mentioned as criticism of the system, and Chaplin, not you. Most of us believe you, and believe that Chaplin and the system at WSU let you down.

While there is still some controversy over importing foreign athletes -- which as you know was debated even back in your days at WSU, I think most people agree that once you were here, you should have been treated intelligently, and far better than you were by Chaplin and WSU.

There is still a world of love out here for you Henry, and we wish you the best in your continued recovery and progress!

Who was that Charles Mukora?

Kipkeino had it easy because he had only one pressure in his head and only running to win and living in the right environment with ideal circumstance.I know Kipkeino, he knows how to eat well,which makes him to think right.

That gave him Two Olympics for Two Golds was enough for his shoulders.

Unlike me who was cheated from left and right and be feed with different cultures and living with big shakes in the middle of the lake.How could you expect me to swim through this ocean it was unreal,but I made it through.Thank God, I live sober nowadays.

Thanks

Henry

very hard to say much about Henry's potential, but from

assumed formula that he was likely an equally strong 5k/10k guy - seems reasonable ( & ran off that ) from general formula of

10k = 2*5k +1'00

using

http://www.jundo.co.uk

& trying some possibilities for Henry

13'07.5 / 27'15 ->54.25 , 1'53.31 , 3'40.62 , 4'59.14 , 7'39.23

already there is nonsense involved

he ran 7'32.1 ( shit -ve splits ), already quicker than above ( even 13'07.5 / 27'22 ->7'37.69 - he was worth lot quicker even back then )

the basic key, therefore, is to look at 5k doubling formula to 10k & then see where the 3k implied times get to 7'32 & then possibly to 7'29/7'30 ( as he ran that 7'32 off shit -ve splits )

13'05.0 / 27'10 ->54.05 , 1'52.91 , 3'39.87 , 4'58.14 , 7'37.73

13'02.5 / 27'05 ->53.85 , 1'52.51 , 3'39.12 , 4'57.14 , 7'36.23

13'00.0 / 27'00 ->53.65 , 1'52.11 , 3'38.37 , 4'56.14 , 7'34.73

12'57.5 / 26'55 ->53.45 , 1'51.71 , 3'37.62 , 4'55.14 , 7'33.23

12'55.0 / 26'50 ->53.25 , 1'51.31 , 3'36.87 , 4'54.14 , 7'31.73

last line has finally got us to under 7'32.1

but, remember, that was run off wildly -ve splts

we have to look for 5k/10k consistent with a 3k at least nearer 7'30 mark

12'52.5 / 26'45 ->53.05 , 1'50.91 , 3'36.12 , 4'53.14 , 7'30.23

we are pretty close to 7'30-flat mark

with trial'n'error ( don't know how to use that calculator better )

7'30.00 comes off

53.05 , 1'50.85 , 3'36.00 , 4'52.98 , 12'52.11 , 26'44.22

i suggest you look at last 2 figures for his 5k/10k potential back in late '70s in ideal wabbited race in zurich/brussels

off course, if someone digs up the splits for his 7'32.1 & we can suggest 7'29.0 or even 7'28.0. we can plug into calculator to modify...

OrvillesAtkins

I dont regret in my life nowadays.I'm greatful, I have accomplished alot of things in life.The era of 1970s and 80s one can not compare with today high techs.

Back then no sports psychologist and nutritionist.I'm glad I did what I did and made it through with few broken bones, so to speak like any soldier who go to war and made it home safely.I sit here happy,listening, smiling and enjoying you guys talking about my talent.

Henry

the obvious.... wrote:

There are only two ways to read Henry's comments (here and in his biography), he's either a total victim, or a total blame shifter.

Life is not that simple.

Henry, it's great to hear from you again. I think it's been a couple of years. I hope you are well.

Altoroad:

That is a fantastic piece of writing--in its own way, one of the very best pieces of writing on running that I've ever read. Kenny Moore, Roger Robinson, and Henry Rono: the three great running writers of our time.

Rono misuses words in a way that always reveals an inspired poetic temperament and a keen analytical mind. He doesn't get nearly enough credit for either thing.

And Henry: Now that I realize you're reading these words, I'll speak directly to you. You have a quirky way with language. Some of what you write is non-standard English. I'm OK with that. What shines through is a truly remarkable, integral, trenchant (deep-seeing) mind.

There are many workmanlike writers who cover the running beat. There aren't very many who can really tell a story in a way that echoes in the mind. You are one of the very few. I salute you for that. You've inspired me twice--once with the races you ran, a second time with the skillful and inspired way you've shaped your own story. In this you are, as far as I know, one of a very small handful--not just a world-class runner for the ages, but one of the few of THOSE who has the literary skill to put us in your shoes.

Brilliant.

To Kudzurunner,

Thank you for your encouragement comment.

I ran as I feel and my writing follows behind those steps with deep visualization.

I also think and try to be honest with my feelings.I also try to be honest with my thinking and what I see comes out of the pen in black and white paper.

I hope it makes sense.

Thanks

Henry

ukathleticscoach wrote:

Rono would never have run 3:31i and 2:03 marathon like Geb, and never won all the "million" x-c titles that Bekele won, or run the 12:37 or the 26:17

----------------------------------------

and if Bekele was born 30 years earlier there is no way he would be running 12.37 or 26.17

You cannot compare athletes from different eras effectively. Rono was denied his chance in the Olympics so there is always going to be unanswered questions there

One does not even have to compare era's or specific times. Bekele and Geb's careers are just flat out better than Rono's or anyone else's. No one is denying that Rono is an all time great.

But it gets a little silly to hear these people saying ....IF he was born then, and didn't drink, and did this, trained like that, and didn't get injured, and ate this, and ran in the olympics, and Bekele and Geb weren't doped, and Henry had a better kick, and he lost some weight, and on and on and on.....

That's a lot of "ifs and buts."

Give me a break.

Oh, and coach, Seb Coe was running in the Rono era. He ran 1:41. Only only one human in history has run faster. So don't tell me you know what Bekele or Geb would or would not have run in that era. Some people can be ahead of their time, maybe they would have been way ahead of their time too if born in that era. Jim Ryun ran a 3:51.1 mile on a cinder track as a 19 y.o. a million years ago. That's worth what on today's tracks? 3:47-high, 48-low ??? How many 19 y.o.'s have run faster, even including kenyans who are overaged? Virtually none. And as we all know, the non-african records (including coe's times) have progressed very little since 20-30 years ago. Taking tracks into consideration, the white man just about peaked awhile back. You know this. The african participation has increased a lot, and since this more "mass" participation for them occurred later than it did for the non-african, it makes sense that they would find their very best more recently than 30 years ago, and they have, and their names are Bekele and Geb.

But we don't even have to play the conjecture game and the potential game and all that. Bekele and Geb were much faster, have more WR's, have MANY more world titles, and so on and so on.

Some things are easy to come to a conclusion about, and one of them is: Haile Gebrselassie and Kenensia Bekele are the two greatest distance runners of all time. Period, end of story, let's move on to something else. But you guys want to argue even about THAT??? And people say I like to argue just for the sake arguing!

I think with Rono's supreme cardiovascular system and todays technology he would be right up there with the current greats. Remember we will never know how he would have done at an Olympics, as Kenya boycotted the 76 and 80 games, in Rono's prime. His four world records in 1978 have not been matched since and he ran them without a rabbit. He lost to Ovett in August of 1978, but Rono was running sub 8:20 2-mile indoors that year against Nick Rose and Suliman Nyumbi(SP?) where they would go out in 4:16-18 and close in 4:02. He ran almost 8 months that year at a very high level. His times may have been faster. I remember watching him play during races. Sprint the straights and cruise the turns. The 7:32.1 3k is still very fast, even by todays standards. It took a 3:46 miler to finally break that record, and I remembered Said Aquita being fustrated a few times when he attempted to break it and could not. If Rono's had had a pacer in one of WR'S I feel he would have been the first under 13:00 and 27:00 in 1978. Yeah, he would have been a contender today.

Of course Rono's has no world titles. They did not have them then. I also remember reading how devistated the Kenyans were that the could not run in the Olympics, they were also forbidend to run any races where South Africans ran or any country that would let South Africans run. That really hurt their desire to train. Rono and all the Africans had it tough. Why do I train, I can not run for my country. Yet through all that he set 4 WR in 1978. No matter how much you attack his private person, you can not take that away from him.