What shoes should I buy my ten year old? Trainers or rcing flats.

The problem with flats is not the cushioning, but the lack of rearfoot stability. The actual impact forces from the ground on the body do not have an strong correlation to injury, but overpronation/underpronation do. If not given the proper time to recover from workout, the body will not adjust and injury will occur. Check out the kid's foot biomechanics, then go from there.

On the subject of running barefoot on pavement, that's nuts. The human body was designed to run on soft surfaces...ie, it was designed far before pavement was introduced.

Also, to the original poster, keep in mind that your son is not done growing. The epiphyseal plates in his legs are subject to injury from the impact of large amounts of training. The volume that you are having him run seems okay.

I'm not sure about shoes in kid sizes-- as Legalizit pointed out, the simpler the shoe and the less midsole it has, the better. I went out to the mall the other day, and was amazed by all of the retro shoes! If you have to get a woman's shoe, there are plenty out there. Look for a shoe with a firm heel counter, less midsole AND heel wedge, and a flexible forefoot. Some people have mentioned the New Balance R150's (is that correct?).

I've been training in the Asics (Tiger) Onitsuka Ultimate 81's. You can get them at

www.zappos.com

for $42 (Eastbay has them for $39 plus shipping and handling equals $46). Or you can check out all the retro Asics shoes at (a little more expensive):

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/classicsportshoes/onitsukatiger.html

:) jag

I'll throw you in with the crew who doesn't actually run barefoot on pavement. In regards to what the human body was designed to run on, it's opinion, unless we get the original creator to post here, and He probably won't because he'd get bashed mercilessly. In my opinion, the human body was designed to run over anything that could support it. The key word is run over, which is different than running through or into. Hardened mud in the desert, or slabs of rock in the mountains must be ran over too and I doubt the runner of 10,000 years ago would have insisted on walking over these surfaces to prevent injury. Pavement may not be a good place to learn how to run barefoot, but once you got it down, you can really fly on pavement.

Legalizit wrote:

In regards to what the human body was designed to run on, it's opinion, unless we get the original creator to post here, and He probably won't because he'd get bashed mercilessly.

I agree with this point.

If running barefoot on all surfaces is so great, why don't we see more people doing it? They may do strides barefoot, but not training runs. And if trainers are the root of all evil, why doesn't everyone who runs in them get injured? I was injured, due in part to the lightweight shoe I was in (virtually no rearfoot control), then switched to a more supportive shoe and the injury disappeared.

CGrad wrote:

The problem with flats is not the cushioning, but the lack of rearfoot stability. The actual impact forces from the ground on the body do not have an strong correlation to injury, but overpronation/underpronation do. If not given the proper time to recover from workout, the body will not adjust and injury will occur. Check out the kid's foot biomechanics, then go from there.

Read below:

Wearers of expensive running shoes that were promoted as correcting pronation or providing more cushioning experienced a greater prevalence of these running-related injuries than wearers of less expensive shoes (Robbins and Gouw, 1991). In another study, expensive athletic shoes accounted for more than twice as many injuries as cheaper shoes, a fact that prompted Robbins and Waked (1997) to suggest that deceptive advertising of athletic footwear (e.g., "cushioning impact") may represent a public health hazard. Anthony (1987) reported that running shoes should be considered protective devices (from dangerous or painful objects) rather than corrective devices, as their capacity for shock absorption and control of over-pronation is limited.

I agree that a better flat is one that has a firm heel counter, but other than that it is unnecessary for the shoe to have a "corrective device" in the midsole (Motion Control/Stability shoes) for the reasons above. The shoe should be comfortable (foremost) and simple.

Can't believe I missed this thread!

Don't let the poor kid get into trainers - he'll strengthen his legs and weaken his lower legs, ankles and feet making it harder to transition later.

The idea of a 10yr transition made me laugh out loud! Nonsense! I went from 45mpw in trainers (support)+ orthotics (used them for 12+yrs) to my current 80mpw in ultra light flats (NB150s) in just a few months.

My kids (7 in 2 weeks & 11) run in flats on road and surf shoes off-road. If anyone thinks that is putting them at risk of impact injury, then they just do not understand the basics of how the foot works. Period.

You create more risk of injury with trainers.

For crying out loud, give this kid the opportunity to run properly. Flats.

When you have a light trainer or regular trainer, the cushy midsole is built up in such a way that one sits higher off the ground, making a person more unstable on their feet and less able to sense the ground underneath them. Then, the shoe companies try to add in these features such rearfoot control and medial stability to firm up the midsole and "prevent" these problems. Sometimes they help, but most often they lead to more problems and more pronation. You look at a shoe like what Legalizit or I mentioned-- thinner, firmer midsole, closer to the ground, less likely to be "rocking" one way or another, and better able to sense the ground.

Yes, some flat are flimpsy and offer little support. But, there are good flats out there like mentioned.

Jaguar, thank you so much for putting that yahoo link up. I owe you forever! I'm extremely excited at finally having found a pair of the Tai-Chi's in stock. Today is an incredible day.

You trying to make a play on Jaguar? Cool. Letshookup.com

Hedge wrote:

You trying to make a play on Jaguar? Cool. Letshookup.com

I'm taken. ;) jag

Married?

Hedge wrote:

Married?

No, but will be within the next year and a half!

Has this been formalized, or is it your own personal New Year's resolution.

Legalizit, I think she's telling you that you have a chance! Looks like she's looking for some major commitment, though.

Ah, Agapeguy can handle it!

Another day another love connection. Hoof Whammies to you both.

If you understood how hard it is to find those shoes, then, well, you'd understand. They are sold out almost everywhere and the only other place I've been able to find them is on EBAY for around $150. I called the shop up and they confirmed they have the shoe in my size so I ordered two pair, and honestly, I still won't believe I'm really getting these things until they are in my hands. I'm expecting to get a call back from customer service saying the person on the phone was mistaken and the shoes aren't in stock after all.

Do you know me, or did you just click on my name to find the "Agapeguy"? Ever since reading Castaneda, and probably because I think the cat is the animal best to model myself after to reach my athletic potential, my dreams are often visited by a panther, or has it really been a jaguar this whole time? Hmm...

To the original poster, what are you going to do about the shoe situation?

Youth Coach wrote:

Quote me the study that shows training shoes cause injuries.

Additionally, training in racing flats or barfoor (on grass) you learn to strike the ground more efficiently and thus don't take the same impact the way a trainer forces you to. Landing on your heel in running is not natural.

I don't know you, but I am well aware of your unconventionality. This is why you and jaguar would be a perfect fit. It was actually jaguar acting like a cat in all those dreams.

I can see your address by holding my mouse (this whole thing is a cat & mouse game) over the address link, but I've seen it before.

Glad you got your shoes (or at least I really hope you get them), and I will now leave you and Jag to yourselves. Glad I could be of service.

Kids are fine on asphalt and concrete too even though it is extremely hard.

when i was 8 years old i did an awful lot of flat out running on concrete, racing other kids over and over, day after day, as well as running on grass.

kids don't need to be wrapped in cotton wool they know when they have had enough. kids who run a lot are naturally tough, competitive and aggressive, and know how to listen to their bodies.

they do not need adults over protecting them and putting ideas into their heads which could give them an inferiority complex, they are not going to damage themselves running on hard surfaces that's ridiculous. i never got injured when i was a kid, and i'm still injury free at 41.

just let the kids do their own thing and run whenever and wherever they want.

Hedge wrote:

Has this been formalized, or is it your own personal New Year's resolution.

Yes, I have a ring on my finger and The Day is sometime in June 2005.

I'm glad I could help, Legalizit-- I didn't realize those shoes are rare! Is the Tai Chi good for running? Good luck on finding another "jaguar" or cheetah, or whatever rare cat you can find!

:) jag