USAIN BOLT emergence and the Jamaicans unseen sprint domination, your thoughts?

What was MJ's first 100 of his 200 in Atlanta?

The Olympics aren't decided by pulling names out of a f***ing hat or a game of roulette you dips-shit. You seem to think that the country with the largest population somehow has a right to more medals. If that's the case then China should clean-up in all the events every time.

We've been through this before on here. Like I said: unlikely things do happen from time to time. If the Jamaican woman continue to dominate for the next ten years East German style then we can talk about systematic doping. So far this season a Jamaican women 1-2-3 is looking much less likely.

Oldtimefan wrote:

Really??? I must have missed the times Michael Johnson ran sub 10.

I think he only ran about two 100m races in his entire career, and got injured each time.

People continue to question outliers in track but they exist in any other measure. There are people with iq's that defy logic. Did people question whether Einstein did "brain doping"?

A few individuals gain extreme height or weight. There are abnormally high max vo2's and a few singers with range that no one else can match. So why can't one sprinter have abnormally high talent.

Don't forget that he is also a new prototype. His fast twitch fibers are off the chart and has a strength vs. lever arm ratio that we haven't seen before. I'd question Gay (and I shouldn't even say that because I don't) before I'd question Bolt because performance enhancement usually brings a higher incidence of injuries and that hasn't been an issue for Bolt - yet.

And lets go back to the dramatic improvement thing. He wasn't focusing on the 100M and then he did. If he was concentrating on the 100M for years and then suddenly improved I'd wonder why.

Let's get off the "I wonder if they're dirty" theme and enjoy the best 100M of all time.

The country with the highest population of suitable athletes DOES have a right to expect the most medals. It won't always work out that way, but all other things being equal, that's what should happen. That's basic probability. Note the "suitable athletes" part in relation to China. Genetics do matter, which is why in the case of Olympic sprinting, limiting to populations of West African origin is sensible. A further question is whether Jamaicans of West African origin are different than those in the U.S. If they are not, then Olympic results at the nation level actually are like drawing names out of hat.

Also, the word "unlikely" does a great injustice to what has happened. Usain Bolt is "unlikely". One Jamaican woman in first is "unlikely". Bolt, a 1-2-3 women's sweep, a collection of multiple athletes in a men's relay pool that is absolutely dominant - all of these taken together are orders of magnitude more improbable than just "unlikely". (orders of magnitude means add more zeros, chief)

The explanation could be any number of things alone or in combination - coaching, training, motivation, actual genetic differences, whatever. But to not include doping high on the list is extraordinarily naive.

Those guys were probably all on steroids too, because those were all pretty improbable.

Maybe Bolt or Gay are doping, and if they test positive I will not be a fan anymore, even now I will not fully be behind them because I do not know, but this is the reason why we watch sports. We can always wonder what would happen if Coe, Ovett, El G, Morcelli et al raced each other in their primes, but right now we have the two fastest men ever getting ready to face off at (hopefully) two distances. It could be that they are on drugs, or it could be that we just happen to be lucky enough to be witnesses to one of the greatest races in track history. I for one would rather put all the steroid accusations aside, watch this race and hope for a moment that will be remembered alongside those above. If it is found out in five or ten years that they were doping, well at least I had seen this race, if not then I'll be able to say I watched in awe as two men ran faster than anyone has before.

Once again, this was already predicted in the 93 motion picture "Cool Runnings". Get with the program.

On a sad note, RIP John Candy. You were great in "Uncle Buck".

skinny runner dude wrote:

Why do people hate Vipam now? I haven't been on the boards in about 3 years and all of a sudden people hate one of the smartest and most educated posters on here?

Wrong, he is a moron. And if you like him you are a moron too.

Don't you people get it?

The sponsors behind the athletes, who have the power and money, frequently bribe key USOC members and physicians to make sure dirty athletes stay "clean".

Stir the Pot wrote:

I have reservations too, but I have to stick with innocent until proven guilty. The recent failed tests of team members close to Bolt do cast suspicion. However, he hasn't been caught and in the meantime Bolt is good for the sport.

naive.

who gives a shit what is "good for the sport."

the usatf could start a super-doping program to create a stable of even more drugged world beaters that would be exciting to watch on the tube. would that be "good for the sport?"

BLCH wrote:

What was MJ's first 100 of his 200 in Atlanta?

10.12

Yes thats a great idea .... in fact .....

This is how is SHOULD BE!

There should be two divisions of athletics ...

One for the STRAIGHTS ... and one for the

STRAYS ...

The STRAYS are those that are "anything goes" ....

roids, reindeer milk, whale bluber, blood transfusions (as in

Kenyan blood into Caucasion bodies), thc, even let them

use "run-fast". The only rule would be no cross dressing

or sex changes.

Let the big guys/gals become Monsters and put them on a

WORLD WIDE CIRCUIT.

This would be good for Track and Field because the CIRCUIT

would have to REVENUE SHARE with the

STRAIGHTS.

The notoriety of the behemoths gobbling each other on the track

and pounding each other on the field would bring some much

needed attention to the sport and have some good potential

monies for everybody.

Who give a shit about the worthless opinions of a nobody like you?

If you departed this earth tomorrow, nobody would notice.

Billions will tune into Berlin on the days that Bolt runs - which is an apt figure, because he’s about a billion times more valuable and precious than you ever were.

Stir the Pot wrote:

Who give a shit about the worthless opinions of a nobody like you?

If you departed this earth tomorrow, nobody would notice.

Billions will tune into Berlin on the days that Bolt runs - which is an apt figure, because he’s about a billion times more valuable and precious than you ever were.

but your opinion matters? haha.

bolt is dirty. why do you care so much?

survival wrote:

People continue to question outliers in track but they exist in any other measure. There are people with iq's that defy logic. Did people question whether Einstein did "brain doping"?

A few individuals gain extreme height or weight. There are abnormally high max vo2's and a few singers with range that no one else can match. So why can't one sprinter have abnormally high talent.

who is claiming that bolt isn't a genetic freak?

the point is that (1) all people at the top are, (2) doping is rampant in all top level sports, (3) testing does not work, so (5) the outliers that are even better than the other outliers ins a sport full of cheaters cannot simply be presumed to be innocent.

well...if course the "can" be presumed innocent...if you're a sucker.

At no time did I say Usain Bolt wasn't an exceptional talent; however, he has never shown the capability to destroy the 100m WR and then the MJ's 200m (19.32) WR in which coaches of professional athletes, elite athletes, sport analysts, and fans thought wouldn't be broken in our lifetime. Usain Bolt went from a talented teen, to an adult with plenty of talent but NOWHERE near a dominant force, and then in 2008 to a different plane of sprinting in one year. Could it be just his athletic ability and hard training- yes but isn't that the same thing Flo Jo said and very few believed her transformation. She citied weight-lifting, 400m training, better coaching, and newfound commitment (ironically all the things Bolt has said of his 2008 emergence). THOSE ARE FACTS about each giving for their breakout year....and yet one is believed and one isn't by most of the masses.

In 2008 Jamaica went 1, 2, 3, 4 in the women 100m end of the year rankings and no country had every went 1, 2, 3. The U.S with the eras of Evelyn Ashford, Gwen Torrence, Valeria Brisco Hooks, etc had never went 1, 2, 3. Jamaica never shown the promise of going 1, 2, 3, 4 with their female athletes and then to top that off 1, 2, 5, 7 in the men's 100m. So in one year that country produced FORTY PERCENT of the top 100m sprinters of the world is the things dreams are made of and not truly delivered.

Could some of U.S. sprinters be passing drug test and be cheat as well- YES but so could Jamaica. The fact that some of the other Jamaican sprinters have tested positives for performance enhancing drugs right after the countries mindboggling sprinting in the Olympic year brings more questions to the fold!

VIPAM wrote:

At no time did I say Usain Bolt wasn't an exceptional talent; however, he has never shown the capability to destroy the 100m WR and then the MJ's 200m (19.32)

I agree. This reminds me of baseball and when Barry Bonds started taking steroids. He went from a superstar to a demigod. I think it was Canseco that said steroids take you one level higher than what you were before...if you were a star, you'll become a superstar. In the case of Barry Bonds, he was already a clean superstar. I think this is basically what is going on with Bolt. He's a natural superstar who is on something and is now doing things that are superhuman.

In which case the chances of an American 1-2-3 are exactly the same as a Jamaican 1-2-3. Dumbass.

Like I said on another thread when we were both posting under different names, the Jamaicans have only dominated the sprints in one international championships so far. This isn't enough to break your magical probability space-time continuum.

If you want to accuse Bolt of being on PEDs because you can't handle America not dominating the sprints then fine but at least admit that that's where you're coming from. Quit with the BS about probabilities and genetics.

The only real reason to suspect him is because he the Olympic Champion because so many have doped in the past, not because he is Jamaican.

That is so true...Usain Bolt's great improvement in one year was alone enough for me to question what we may never know. The fact that many of his countrymen improved considerably the same year was another factor and then more than one being busted for performance enhancing drugs was enough for me to suspect something isn't quite right. To the poster who mentioned, "a star becoming a superstar and a superstar doing things superhuman", in relation to performance enhancing drugs maybe right on the money. In no shape am I limiting that to Jamaicans but right now that's who are on top of the sporting world and did they arrived with a bang and in numbers!