140 mile weeks with only 10 mile runs?

ukathleticscoach wrote:

So should we get the training program of runners like Geb and Wanjiru and throw them in the bin?

It's a rhetorical question

10+10 or so everyday would be great "phase 1" training before "Geb/Wanjiru" training.

Old School Approach wrote:

Obviously you would do a long run of 20 on Sunday, just like 2-3 of the 10 mile runs would be done or include miles at or below marathon pace.

This schedule is beautifully simplistic that most runners today don't follow it because it's not complicated enough.

Frank Shorter had a quote on why he couldn't put out a book on training 'because it would be one page'.

1.not everone is an elite runner

2. It may take smarter coaching to make average runners better

3. Just because someone did this doesn't mean something else wouldn't have worked better.

4. I would bet that too much junk miles make more people slow then fast

5. Start by having Frank Shorter's gentics [112 Lbs, perfect form, and super competetive drive] and then run 140 miles a week is not coaching advice.

fgfg wrote:

Old School Approach wrote:

Obviously you would do a long run of 20 on Sunday, just like 2-3 of the 10 mile runs would be done or include miles at or below marathon pace.

This schedule is beautifully simplistic that most runners today don't follow it because it's not complicated enough.

Frank Shorter had a quote on why he couldn't put out a book on training 'because it would be one page'.

1.not everone is an elite runner

2. It may take smarter coaching to make average runners better

3. Just because someone did this doesn't mean something else wouldn't have worked better.

4. I would bet that too much junk miles make more people slow then fast

5. Start by having Frank Shorter's gentics [112 Lbs, perfect form, and super competetive drive] and then run 140 miles a week is not coaching advice.

1. So what does that have to do with running 140 mile weeks? You don't want to improve as much as you can because you aren't elite?

2. It's actually easier to improve average or less than average runners than it is to improve elite runners. Taking someone who was a five minute high school miler to 4:40 is something that happens all the time. Taking a 4:00 guy to 3:50 is very rare.

3. This is a totally useless statement because you can say it almost all the time about almost anything.

4. You'd be wrong.

5. You have to work with what you have.

people have this idea about "junk miles" being useless because they see clueless runners who do 120 miles a week at 8 min pace and don't improve. You can't succeed on all quantity or all quality, obviously it's got to be a mix. In a reasonably difficult training plan there's no such thing as "junk miles".

The only junk miles are the ones that are too slow to provide much of a good stimulus and too fast to allow recovery. Also known as what most letsrunners call "my easy recovery pace; I don't believe in junk miles!"

Also, there is no way in Hell Frank Shorter was 112 pounds. His autobiography states he's at about 130 when he was racing well, and he's 5" 10- hundreds of runners share those dimensions.

Here's the kicker, though- what comes first?

1) The low weight, fast times, good form, and super-competitive drive.

2) Years of hard, high-volume training.

Chicken and the egg, man.

Im insulted by the fact someone used the term "junk miles". There is no such thing. All miles whether fast or slow have a purpose whether it be a tempo run or a recovery jog.

Toshiko Saiko wrote:

Im insulted by the fact someone used the term "junk miles". There is no such thing. All miles whether fast or slow have a purpose whether it be a tempo run or a recovery jog.

Your name reminds me of the former Japanese marathon star Toshihiko Seko.

For what its worth, the following is a pretty good way to run your 140 mile week.

Mon: am 10 miles easy

pm 10 miles easy

Tue: am Lactate Threshold or Aerobic Threshold workout

pm 6 miles easy

Wed: am 10 miles easy

pm 10 miles easy + strides

Thu: am 15 miles easy

pm -

Fri: am VO2 Max, Lactate Tolerance or Repetitions workout

pm 6 miles easy

Sat: am 10 miles easy

pm 10 miles easy + strides

Sun: am 25 miles with a few at MP

pm -

Total: 140 miles

I was thinking more like..

mon

10 easy

10 easy

tue

10 easy

10 easy

wed

10 easy

10 easy

thu

10 easy

10 easy

fri

10 easy

10 easy

sat

10 east

10 easy

sun

10 easy

10 easy

I was thinking more like..

mon

10 progression

10 progression

tue

10 progression

10 progression

wed

10 progression

10 progression

thu

10 progression

10 progression

fri

10 progression

10 progression

sat

10 progression

10 progression

sun

20 progression

Then add workouts after doing that for some months.

I was just re-reading this thread after recently reading Bill Rodgers' log where he basically ran 20 per day in two runs and then one long run per week. I don't think he strategized it that way, but it's essentially what he did. Many of the great runners have done it.

I was struck most by the guy who said he ran 2:17 back in the day, wasn't the fastest in his group, and just stuck to the simplest training plan. Then he points out how he was a nobody then, but would be top 15 in America right now.

If you're a current college runner considering the marathon, pay attention!

Honestly, What do you think 140 miles a week will do to you? Have you factored that into the equation?

Honestly? Have you thought about how 140 miles a week will affect you, your body, your mental ability? Did you factor that into your training as well?

Old School Approach wrote:

Obviously you would do a long run of 20 on Sunday, just like 2-3 of the 10 mile runs would be done or include miles at or below marathon pace.

This schedule is beautifully simplistic that most runners today don't follow it because it's not complicated enough.

Frank Shorter had a quote on why he couldn't put out a book on training 'because it would be one page'.

his book is 160 pages

LuckyLou wrote:

Honestly? Have you thought about how 140 miles a week will affect you, your body, your mental ability? Did you factor that into your training as well?

Are you really trying to ask if he's tried seriously to come up with plausible

sounding excuses to avoid doing it?

The Road Warrior. I think you miss the point.

Frank Shorter putting out a book for hobby joggers to make really doesn't disprove what he was saying.

I on my 30th consecutive 100+M week and have averaged 120M with mulitple 140+M weeks. I found that I improved rapidly initially but now my body is taking a while to get used to maintaining it - just coming out of a dip. What was previosuly said about the difference between doing for a short while and for an extended period is 100% true. But I am finally seeming to be getting to the point where this is "normal" to me.

My mistake was not keeping an eye on speed throughout - not enough strides or faster runs. I excused myself from it as I was pretty heavy when I restarted and thought it'd be too much for me with all the miles. When I progressed rapidly I got much faster but I'm still finding it very hard to run faster than 6mm pace - it's easy on the engine, but too tough for the chassis. I ran a 2:44 marathon 13 weeks in at only 75%maxHR, but could not have gone any faster. The speed will take a long time to come.

So, after 30 weeks of this, I'd say 120-140mpw is a great idea. But I'd add the following:

1) Keep some speed in there - not anaerobic work, but maybe some strides, some hill sprints and the odd tempo run.

2) I prefer a 14 or 15M and a slightly shorter 7M double than the 10/10. I find I get a better aerobic adaptation with the longer main run and the shorter double enables better recovery. I also prefer doing the main run first.

3) Apart from a few prescribed sessions (tempo, long run, strides) I have found that never pushing it and only going at the pace the legs want to go at is the recipe for keeping injury free. The speed will come from the prescibed runs and the other runs will pick up when they are good and ready. The one time I tried pushing it a bit more (as I felt I SHOULD be going faster with all these miles) I just set myself back a few months. Lack of patience, pure and simple. As a friend of mine told me, "Always protect what you have before reaching out for more".

4) If you can fit in stretching and strength work, then do it. Weak, inflexible legs struggle to go fast -I wish I'd got more done earlier. High mileage is a good excuse to skip that stuff, but I have found that those miles can mean that you need the supplementary training even more.

Just my experience. Hope it helps. Good luck!

Great post Pantman.

Love this quote "Always protect what you have before reaching out for more".

That's a Hadd quote. :)