Jim Peters would be the classic example.
His fastest mile was only 4:17, yet he set 5 world records for the marathon.
Jim Peters would be the classic example.
His fastest mile was only 4:17, yet he set 5 world records for the marathon.
Derek Clayton too. His fastest mile was 4:07.5
J.R. wrote:
Dan Moriarity wrote:look at Lopes as the classic example with his killing-LT/LTP runs and intervals used sparingly with longer recoveries than [say] Mamede
Carlos Lopes ran intervals twice a week, every week, every month, every year.
Lopes and Mamede had the same coach and used the same type of intervals. Lopes ran the distance runs faster and Mamede ran the repetitions faster. For example Lopes ran 400's at his 5-10000m pace.
Read the thread. The info on Lopes and Mamede's training was from Antonio Cabral who witnessed many of the workouts and knows each of them personally.
HRE wrote:
Fred Wilt has him as "Taylor." The one Lydiard coached spelled his name "Tayler."
Right you are. I stand corrected!
I set all my PRs in college for 1,500m-5,000m off of solid base and HM training: long runs, long tempo runs (HM to 10mile race pace) and longer intervals (1km repeats at 10km pace) and longer hill reps (4 X 800m @ 5km effort). I was banging out 10km @ 10mile race pace and 13km @ HM pace weekly with a 16-20 mile long run and a few harder 1km reps on the road and while my HM and 10km times improved a little my 1,500m-3,000m times dropped dramatically.
Even when I started doing some faster 5,000m pace intervals my most improved times were below 5km. I even set my 800m PR (2:01) with nothing faster than regular 3:05 kilometer reps and 1:10 four hundred reps.
Dan Moriarity wrote:
The info on Lopes and Mamede's training was from Antonio Cabral
Nonsense.
I'm sure that Antonio Cabral would never say Carlos Lopes did not run intervals, as Lopes did run intervals, EVERY week, week after week.
In addition to your quote from whoever it was, Lydiard also pointed to Lopes as proving intervals were not necessary, saying he was a pure aerobic runner who never did them, which was false.
800 dude wrote:
4 weeks of HARD intervals is enough.
i think this is the key. i seem to do well off of 4-6 weeks of high intensity work and then it's a down hill slide.
for most mere mortals, this type of work has to be used sparingly for peak races or you get diminsing returns.
it took me a long time to finally see the patterns in my training to figure this out.
runner39 wrote:
doing the mileage with just tempo/threshold stuff also help me keep my weight down which is more than likely the reason for the PR's
your mileage should still be high when running 1000.s and Miles.
Obviously you still haven't read the link I provided in my first post. Cabral didn't say Lopes never ran intervals, he said Lopes ran fewer interval sessions and ran them slower and with longer rests than Mamede.
Dan Moriarity wrote:
look at Lopes as the classic example with his killing-LT/LTP runs and intervals used sparingly with longer recoveries than [say] Mamede)
FALSE!
Lopes did not run the intervals sparingly.
Lopes ran intervals all the time, twice a week, every week, week after week.
He is NOT a classic example of a runner who did not use intervals.
I couldn't find anything about Lopes's track training, but found this nice article about his world xc title in another era of cross country. Pat Porter was fourth, the American men 2nd, the American women won their ninth straight title, and the Ethiopian men took the team title.
http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1121930/index.htm
Here are Lopes and Salazar in 1983.
Derek Clayton also could only do 54 seconds for 400. I always ran faster off of mileage than doing intervals also. During the school year the Monday & Wednesday weekly interval sessions were always run faster than they should have been b/c everyone on the team tried to beat each other. These workouts being run to hard left out legs feeling terrible every other day of the week... including race day. Also when you run hard intervals you are forced to run less on the other days of the week or if you do run the same amount of miles your legs feel terrible on those runs & you risk getting injured. The object is to improve fitness without getting injured & your times will drop.
Montreal 1976 - Lopes crushes the 10000m
Oh geez. I wish you guys didn't hijack this thread with irrelevent tales about elites. The OP is a regular guy and the thread was interesting and usefull already in that context.
Interesting thread. Some of this mirrors my experience last summer with preparing for my first track 10k for a decade. Only a few weeks of sharpening on top of a good foundation produced some good results. The sharpening phase and lactate test data are on my blog
http://adrianmarriott.blogspot.com/2008/06/10k-training-this-spring.html
Jonesy, do you have a website for your group over in Colorado or have you posted some info about who is training there with you. Would be interested to hear more. Thanks
Adrian
To the OP: You're probably just doing them too fast. I think the problem that regular guys like you and me have is that we go out and bang intervals way too early in the season. You start running them three months out from when you plan on peaking, but you're running them at very intense paces in order to fulfill some expectation you have of yourself or in order to keep up with the faster guys on a team. Before you know it, you've peaked after three weeks and that's it.
Let me add my name to the list of people who have been more successful with Tempo than with intervals. I've been running 25 years and I've tried everything from focused high intensity 3 x week interval and VO2 max work to high mileage and LT training.
Two added benefits of Tempo style training
1. Its much more efficient/easier to fit in around a busier schedule
2. Its much easier to control a peak. In college off pure interval training I struggled to time my peak performance. Frequently I would end up extremely flat as I cut back on mileage and intensity. With Tempo its much easier and more predictable
Adrian Marriott wrote:
Interesting thread. Some of this mirrors my experience last summer with preparing for my first track 10k for a decade. Only a few weeks of sharpening on top of a good foundation produced some good results. The sharpening phase and lactate test data are on my blog
http://adrianmarriott.blogspot.com/2008/06/10k-training-this-spring.htmlJonesy, do you have a website for your group over in Colorado or have you posted some info about who is training there with you. Would be interested to hear more. Thanks
Adrian
Adian, "jonesy" isn't the same jonesy you're thinking of (Steve Jones). Letsrun's jonesy is just another blowhard.
I've run PR's off of just mileage and tempo runs as well..Every person is different, but I would try doing some weightlifting...but stuff strictly related to running twice a week...stuff like single leg squats, dumbell RDL's, tricep kickbacks, dumbell incline/bench, core work, ab work, low rows, and stuff like that. It's really helped me...start with light weight and high volume for awhile and then eventually go a little heavier and less volume during racing season...it's really helped me out a lot.