Wrong. Cook, the Zelig of coaching, doesn't understand the first thing about coaching - mutual respect between athlete and coach. Without that kind of relationship there is no coaching going on. Instead, he shows his complete lack of class, whining publicly about the departure of his athletes.
A wet dishrag could coach Flanagan.
One problem Cook must face is his "hard assedness" can come around full circle. He alone successfully ruined my relationship with British Athletics back in the 90s. He's as old school as Ollan Cassell and about as useful.
Right, the lack of self-awareness is staggering.
If Donohue had in her the ability to threaten 4:00 then she would've done it by now.
He's shown plenty of respect and care for his three athletes up through the Olympics, it was a very positive and very productive team.
He didn't say anything when either the Erin thing or Shalane thing happened. But he felt the need to respond to these fabricated stories. I dont blame him.
As for the Dish rag, we'll see how he does. If he can follow Cookbook recipes he might be able to keep things going for sometime. Whatever...
Karen Goucher wrote:
If Donohue had in her the ability to threaten 4:00 then she would've done it by now.
What an idiotic statement.
If she HAS the ability she WILL do it. You're about as clueless as Cook is. You're probably Cook himself posting under many different names.
Who limits an athlete with negativity?? I know a former vault coach who set the bar at 5.80m (19') but told an athlete it was 5.70m (18' 8) the guy's PR was 18'9". He made it then realized he had cleared 19 for the first time and remained in the top 10 in the world for 5-6 years jumping 19+ on a regualr basis.
Another time, same coach told the athlete he had just cleared 18'8. It was 18'4 but the athlete believed he could do it an made 18'9 the next meet.
Now the vault is a different event and in distance the watch doesn't lie, but a smart coach understands the mental aspect of sport.
donohue is 24 years old and made it to the olympic semi finals...
there is absolutely NO reason to believe with such certaintly that she could not get down to 4:00 in the next 4-5 years...
you and cook are idiots for thinking so
im all for realistic goals and understand cooks sentiments there, id fire cook for being an idiot in setting her limits so low
Calling a Kettle Black wrote:
He's shown plenty of respect and care for his three athletes up through the Olympics, it was a very positive and very productive team.
It's obvious that there was no respect for his athletes otherwise they'd stay with him. Even if it was just a mutual disagreement over philosophy that caused the breakups, Cook responded in an arrogant and classless manner. When his athletes left him he had 2 choices: 1. take the high road, 2. take the low road. Cook chose the low road.
Just ask people who have worked with Cook in the past, they all paint the same ugly picture. Is it a coincidence? Do you notice that none of his so-called "supporters" ever post using their own names? Is that a coincidence, too? You know the answer, Mr Cook.
Good point, you've obviously spent enough time with her, know her work discipline, understand her biomechanics and talent to form such an enlightened opinion.
Cook gave her a frank assessment based on experience you dont have. He might be wrong, but he might be realistic and wanted her to focus on a closer goal that he thought she could better achieve.
Give the man some credit. He helped her reach the goal of making the World Championships team when no one else would or did. It's highly likely she wouldn't have have those life experiences without his help.
And he didn't throw her under the truck because she wouldn't break 4min. They started training camp in Mexico to get ready for a full year of coaching/running/racing. He was ready to help her make another big year. She clearly made the situation such that it couldn't continue.
I wish her good luck and hope she learns from this. But she should be proud of her last two years.
Megalomaniacal Cook Book wrote:
What an idiotic statement.
If she HAS the ability she WILL do it. You're about as clueless as Cook is. You're probably Cook himself posting under many different names.
Nice of you to preface your remarks with a warning. Anyway, do you have any basis in fact for believing your claims here? Let us in on them, if you do.
Calling a Kettle Black wrote:
Good point, you've obviously spent enough time with her, know her work discipline, understand her biomechanics and talent to form such an enlightened opinion.
Cook gave her a frank assessment based on experience you dont have. He might be wrong, but he might be realistic and wanted her to focus on a closer goal that he thought she could better achieve.
F that.
When I got to college, I was a 33:00 10k guy. My goal was to break 30:00 by the time I graduated. But I was realistic and didn't start doing 30:00 workouts right away. I ran 32:30. They sub-32:00. Then 31:30. And so on. Finally, after four years of hard work, at Penn my senior year I ran 29:45.
I guess Cook would've pegged me for a 29:45 guy right off the bat, but most people wouldn't. It's hard to tell when someone has hit a plateau or if they can still get faster. Erin probably knows she won't run 4:00 today, but she will work on the steps to reach that goal.
We should send Cook around to every athlete so he can tell them exactly what their best time will be. In fact, let's stop racing all together and just have Cook score every meet since he knows exactly where everyone will finish!
Lucky Bob Beamon and Billy Mills weren't coached by Cook.
I remember hearing how Steve Scott's high school coach would lie about their workout splits to make them think that they were going a little bit faster than they really were. Now I don't know how much that really worked, but running against his teams 20 years later a few years before he died it didn't seem to have hurt anyone over the years and maybe made them think that they could run in a race what they were actually capable of. Still don't know what to thing of Coach Loney at Upland High School, but anyway.
Moes Tavern wrote:
Who limits an athlete with negativity?? I know a former vault coach who set the bar at 5.80m (19') but told an athlete it was 5.70m (18' 8) the guy's PR was 18'9". He made it then realized he had cleared 19 for the first time and remained in the top 10 in the world for 5-6 years jumping 19+ on a regualr basis.
Another time, same coach told the athlete he had just cleared 18'8. It was 18'4 but the athlete believed he could do it an made 18'9 the next meet.
Now the vault is a different event and in distance the watch doesn't lie, but a smart coach understands the mental aspect of sport.
I seem remember another 25 year old with a 4:04.53pr running a a 3:57.40 when she was 32. Should she have stopped at 25 also?Now I don't think is likely Donohue is going to run sub 4 given that only 2 other american have ever done it but it isn't a super unrealistic goal. Unless Cook was trying to convince her that she should be a 10k gal, it isn't a very productive thing to say.
Karen Goucher wrote:
Right, the lack of self-awareness is staggering.
If Donohue had in her the ability to threaten 4:00 then she would've done it by now.
I think there's a bit of a difference between a college freshman and a professional athlete. Obviously you have a bit more room to grow than someone who has been running professionally for the past three years. Six seconds for a professional 1500 meter runner is an eternity. Cook is a coach; it's his job to evaluate his athletes and that's what he did.
Was that Roidgina?
OR wrote:
I seem remember another 25 year old with a 4:04.53pr running a a 3:57.40 when she was 32. Should she have stopped at 25 also?
Given that none of us know the context of the discussion between Donohue and Cook, none of us has a leg to stand on in speculating that Cook automatically was wrong.
Trackgeek,
I understood the PVer coaches mentality because the vaulter actually did vault 19', but coaching runners by telling them they did something when they didn't is hard for me to comprehend. Does it work on a mental level alone because the physical does have to happen. I guess case by case.
Earlier this year I had a gal who ran 32:44 on a downhill course for 10km. Yes, its downhill, the course is certfied, but her legs did turn over that fast. She was a new athlete mentally after that. She'll race again now in April and we'll see if it still holds...
You might be amazed at the amount of so-called serious runners who gladly claim PRs from aided courses.
Not really. I screen them every week.The gal who ran 32:44 still refers to her PR of 33:28 from 5 years ago. To her it was like a wind-aided 100m, but the confidence she had afterwards was undeniable.I do know a whole slew of marathoners who count their Boston '94 times as PRs. Bob Beamon has told me his PR was set in the thin air of Mexico City.
Reliant Aries wrote:
You might be amazed at the amount of so-called serious runners who gladly claim PRs from aided courses.
Malmo:
You have a "big disadvantage" on this message board, as people know who you are. It's an advantage to us when you make insightful, intelligent comments. You do yourself a disservice when you stoop to the same sort of behavior that Cook exhibits. You did not "run circles" around his teams in high school. I remember some competitions where both schools produced lots of good running. Yes, you were a great HS/college/pro runner. And you had a great HS coach. Don't disrespect the truth by bending it to make your point. Just make your point. Cook is/was/will always be a self-serving ass, regardless of pass performances, especially from 36 years ago.