Jordan Hasay NOT to Stanford (yet)

She doesn't need money. Her Dad went to Stanford and is a CEO of a company that makes rocket fuel for NASA. Dozens of Silicon Valley multi-millionaire running geeks will front her $1,000 bills in cash with no receipt on the spot at any cross country or track meet. A Stanford undergrad experience is something to cherish at that age. No, I didn't go to Stanford, I am not tooting my own horn.

Is this your opinion, or are you making up facts out of your ass?

Come up with some facts to back up what you just said and I might believe you...

All three choices have their good points from a running perspective.

Stanford has great weather and unlimited choices of soft surface running trails to choose from. Coaching - to be determined after a couple of years.

Oregon has the great tradition and also has very good training facilities. Very good Coaching, rainy weather.

Washington currently has the best group of Women runners in the country, and with Hasay could really dominate over the next few years. Very good Coaching, a lot of rain and overcast days.

Tough choice for her to make. Might be easier if she knows where some of the other top recruits are going to attend.

In any case she will have great training partners at all three schools, however Washington is currently tops.

XC Forever wrote:

Of course it is special to get a Stanford degree, but my question was directed at the fact that an undergrad degree at Stanford won't get you anywhere speciall on its own. It will probably open doors to a good post bach program most anywhere....but a kid who is smart enough to get into Stanford, will get into a good post grad program in any event. Check it out, an undergrad degree at Stanford won't get you a materially higher paying job anywhere. If you want that kind of success, save your money and get a state university undergrad degree, then go on to an MBA or law degree at Stanford and it makes sense.

My friend, I hate to say it, but you don't know jack.

Many of the top jobs in consulting and finance are only open to graduates of the Ivy League and equivalents schools (Stanford, MIT, U of Chicago, Duke, Amherst, Williams, the top two or three public schools and a few others). These jobs offer starting salaries of 60-80K plus 20-50% bonus to fresh grads right out of undergrad. If the first line on your resume list anything other than one of these top 15 schools then the probability is near 100% that its headed immediately for the circular file.

On top of that, a degree from a school like Stanford will noticeably ease the burden of gaining admission to a top graduate or professional school. Year in and year out, the students who manage to gain admission to top professional programs, such as Harvard Business School, Stanford GSB, Yale Law, and Harvard Medical School, with the lowest GPA's (but generally the highest GMAT, GRE, and MCAT scores) are always from either the Ivy League or Stanford, MIT, etc... These schools will almost always take a 3.5 from Stanford over a 4.0 from a school like Oregon all else being equal. This is because admissions officers know what an achievement getting into a school like Stanford is, and they understand that the level of competition at a place like this astronomically high. If the average Stanford grad were to attend a school like Oregon, it would be the academic equivalent of a DI All-American running in DIII - maybe the top 5-10% would be on the same level, but the majority would be so far behind it would be ridiculous.

Turning down Stanford, especially given the financial aid available to a student like Jordan, would be a monumentally bad decision. Her running career will last maybe 10 more years if all goes well. After that, if she decides she wants to do something more interesting with her life than run around in circles the Stanford degree will be much more useful.

Jordan should turn pro, attend Stanford, Cal, UCLA, Caltech, UCSB, Claremont Colleges, UCSD, any UC, or USC for the world class faculty/department, then join a professional team with Kenyans and Ethiopians to train with. She should bypass the NCAA, it won't do her any good.

UW women ran anywhere from 4-6 races. I also read that most of them weren't over 50 miles per week in mileage. I think this is pretty low for a collegiate team.

I've been hearing all this stuff about the big schools? Why not think about a great little liberal arts school in the Bay Area or Northwest?

My friend, I hate to say it, but YOU don't know jack. I've been throught this thing with my own kids and understand a lot better than do you how it works. One of my daughters went undergrad to the University of Oregon and came out with a 3.65, but very high grad school entrance scores. She then attended grad school at Stanford (STEP) for her masters and teacher's credentials. She went to work at the same pay as anyone else gets with those same creds (MA and cert). We have had a number of other friends who have Stanford degrees. What we have experienced is that the reality, for most programs, is that you are NOT going to get the big paycheck with a undergrad degree (doesn't matter if it is from Stanford or Beaufart). Going on for an MBA or an advanced technical degree is the only way to get past your "urban legend" and cash in with a big entry level salary. BTW, $60-$70 is not a big salary these days.

A Fan of Allie wrote:

What does it matter? She will be an undergrad...a time to experiment with a lot of subjects to decide on what she really wants to do. Nowadays, a BA or BS degree is a dime a dozen, it is the Masters degree and beyond that will set her apart. I think she should live her running dream at the track and field mecca in Eugene, and then take her grad program at Stanford. Just my two cents worth, because look at the people who have followed on with successful pro careers. Many have come out of Eugene, but how many have come out of Stanford or Washington....let's be honest.

Because if its engineering Oregon doesn't have it...

Ryan Hall

Ian Dobson

Jonathon Riley

Sara Hall

Lauren Fleshman

We'll if Arianna Lambie can be added to this list

I suppose Gabe Jennings and Micheal Stember are pros but are not very successful (both were more successful in college).

How many out of Eugene in that same time span?

OK, you got me on this one. Oregon does not offer Engineering degrees. They do offer Business, Architecture, Law, Education, et al. But yes, you are correct that is an impressive list of athletes who have gone to Stanford and done well after college. But, do you make my point....all these great distance runners came out of Vin's legacy at Stanford. It seems that now he is doing the same for his athletes at Oregon. So, other than during Vin's tenure at Stanford, there are few successful pros coming from that school...and NONE from Washington.

There hasn't been any Oly/WC medals for Vin's athletes nor for Oregon, or Stanford in decades. All those schools seem to do is burn out kids. Jordan should go pro, attend Stafor, Cal, USC, UCLA, train with Kenyans and Ethiopians and have a proven coach who has won Olympic/WC medal.

Your daughter received a teaching credential...of course her starting salary was roughly the same as anyone else. New teachers make the same salary in a given market regardless of the prestige of the degree. So it's meaningless to use salaries in teaching as a reference.

Though it's probably moot in the current economy, the high-paid, tough-to-get jobs in finance (think analyst at Goldman, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan, etc) or consulting (McKinsey, Bain, Boston Consulting, etc) are damn near unattainable out of undergrad unless you have a degree from a top school. Not to say that that's what Jordan would want to do.

Your daughter got a masters and teaching credential. While it is certainly commendable that she chose such an honorable profession AND had the smarts to get into Stanford, she should have realized going in that when it comes to teaching in doesn't matter where your degrees are from.

Your right though, if your seeking entering a field with low barriers to entry, then it doesn't matter where you degree is from. However, I would think that the majority of students from top undergrads (I was one back in the day) would prefer to enter into more competitive fields otherwise why bother to put in the effort to get into a top school. And has already been pointed out, the most selective fields and employers - with the offer highest starting salaries - generally require a degree from a top school.

I put in my two years as an analyst at an major investment bank straight out of undergrad. As anyone who has ever worked in banking will tell you, the base salary (60-70K) is just a living stipend. The bonus is where the real compensation comes from. In the two years I worked at that bank I received over 150K in bonuses on top of my base (65K year one, 78K year two). I was one analyst out of a class of over one hundred, but I can count on one hand the number of co-workers I had without Ivy or equivalent undergrad degrees.

When I was done with my two years I was then able to attend both a top MBA program and top public policy program on a nearly full scholarship - without being anywhere near a top student at my undergrad. Today I work in venture capital, and again, though I have met hundreds of people in my field, I can still count on one hand the number without either top undergrad or grad degrees. While clearly not more than a handful of students wish to follow my path, for those that do, a top degree is essential and well worth the money.

In the words of Joe Paterno, "Come to Penn Stateeeee!"

C'mon, we all know she's going to just say "screw it," move to a commune in the San Gabriel Mountains, make river rock jewelry and marry the 53-year-old "Leader," only to one day be the subject of a LetsRun.com "Where Are They Now? Jordan Hasay" feature. It's totally obvious.

If she was a sprinter UCLA and USC might be a good option, but she is not. Have you seen what Petersen at UCLA has done with his talent? Horrible. USC just isn't interested in distance kids and a horrible place to train. Can you imagine those blond locks flowing as she is running in Watts?

I understand the young Hasay is interested in Orthopedic surgery later on. In that case, only two schools make sense out of the ones that are in the running: UW and Stanford. They will prepare her academically and have opportunity to explore her options at the undergraduate level.

If based soley on running you have to consider the environment as it exists now rather on some mythic history created by the Nike machine. The whole pre stuff and track city USA makes me sick. Right now Stanford offers a world class education with a very good young coach and a few good training partners. UW offers a great education with many training partners within an obviously close knit team and coaching staff.

UO offers an mediocre education at best, a coach that is more interested in the men's team, and has had many injuries/eating disorders over his tenure. If not for his poaching of other programs to get 3 of his top runners this year, I'm not sure they are even ranked in the top 15. On the other hand UW had 9 girls crack the 21 minute barrier this year. In the end, it is UW or Stanford.

Last, I do not envy any coach that has to answer for her struggles or mediocre success in her freshman year if she has them. Even if she performs about the same she will be seen as a failure or a failure of the program. Hopefully the coach will take a long term approach with her and develop her with her Senior year and 2012 Olympics in mind.

If she turns pro she would not be NCAA eligible and can enroll at UCLA or USC. She should train with a Kenyan/Ethiopian team of girls her own age in the L.A. area for the Olympics and WCs and adjust around her studies. Allyson did similar and she has Olympic medals.

The "world class" schools in the PAC-10 are USC, UCLA, Stanford, and Cal. UO, UW are not "world class".

Time capsule's post is very mean spirited against the two major Southern California schools UCLA and USC. As a person who migrated from Ohio to the Southern California area, I can tell you that it has everything that jordan would want. They are both awesome academic schools and they both have excellent track programs.

It is true that UCLA is in sort of a rebuilding phase with their women's distance program. I think they have had some bad luck with injuries lately. It is also true that USC is more of a sprint school that has done well in the middle distances. But Jordan could shine in either of those Southern California programs. Coach Peterson at UCLA and coach Walsh USC are capable of doing a great job of coaching Jordan. She would be the star of either program and get the televisuion exposure that she deserves.

Thanks to Prime Ticket in Southern California, track and cross country both get great exposure on TV in the Southern California area. So please don't hate on either one of those great schools when talking about Jordan Hassay.