Disqualification over shorts?

Names and pictures please ? wrote:

The officials let known dopers like Lance Armstrong run marathons but then DQ girls for these silly things. What the hell is going on ? These officials deserve a good swing of a baseball bat between the chops. Does anyone have the names and pictures of the officials who did this ?

DUMB ASS

Lance is a suspected doper, nothing more. He runs marathons for fun, they don't test any runners that run the times he does.

The HS girl is actually running for a competitive team. There are rules to follow as stupid as they may be.

The 2 issues have nothing to do with each other, but brilliant job connecting them.

This is somewhat hearsay but I'm told that this HS girl actually started the race with her uniform in code but then during the race she had rolled down her shorts. She'd been doing this all year, at several big races, but this was the first time she was DQ'd.

[quote]Pabst Blue Ribbon Sports wrote:

I don't think matching sports bras is still a rule though. I'm really not sure if it ever was. Is it really true that happened?

Not exactly what you are talking about, but on the same topic, in MD in 99 a girl was dq'd (Jill Krebs south carroll hs) for having a pink sports bra strap sticking out under a black uni. Was picked up by all the baltimore news stations, and then hit CNN about 3/4 weeks after it happened. It was at the conference meet if I remember correctly.

Most coaches, and probably most officials, believe many of the NHSF rules are stupid. A watch is not jewelry but a string around your wrist is, for example.

Nevertheless, the officials are not jerks for enforcing the rules. In fact, that's their job. Indeed, I would suggest that any official who refuses to enforce a rule he/she thinks is stupid should not be allowed to officiate. The linesman in a football game cannot arbitrarily decide that he's not going to call offsides. And whether they like the rules or not, coaches are failing to do part of their jobs if kids either don't know the uniform and jewelry rules or if they are allowed to violate them.

The whole concept takes about 30 seconds to explain:

1) "Uniform" is both a noun and an adjective.

2) No jewelry except for medical or religious, which must be taped to the body. Best bet, don't wear anything.

3) On our team, any undergarment with the potential to show must be _________ (choose a color appropriate for your team).

4) Shirt must reach waistband and shorts cannot be rolled.

To me, a huge frustration is having a coaches' meeting in which we are told that the rules will be enforced ("Why are you telling us this?" I always want to ask. "Why would anyone think they wouldn't be?") and then they are not. Barring a revision of the NFHS rulebook, the best thing we could do for kids is enforce rules consistently from the first dual meet through to post-season, and the worst is turn it into a guessing game or a game of chicken (like the girl who went to the line with her shorts in compliance, then rolled them down during the race).

In a broad philosophical view, the purpose of rules and of laws is to allow us to moderate our behavior within a predictable and consistent social framework of expectations.

New York HS athletics had stupid rules like this like no wearing watches, no wearing chains with religous symbols that were not taped to your chest...

I don't know about during a race, but I've seen some of these high school girls with their shorts rolled down, after the race. It's totally hot.

coachjones wrote:

Every high school coach knows the uniform rules upside down and inside out...

You're speaking for all of them? You know for certain that every high-school coach in Utah is aware of the most obscure and silly rules? That would be like me claiming that everyone on Letsrun claiming to be a coach has basic proficiency with English--and you give the lie to that one.

Besides, even were you correct, it's not necessarily the coach's fault. The girl might have rolled the waistband at the last minute.

Bullshit DQ and if the state high-school athletic association had a conscience and some balls they would overturn this garbage. Even if the LDS is running the show I can't imagine they are that puritanical just because they happen to follow a goofy faith.

Names and pictures please ? wrote:

The officials let known dopers like Lance Armstrong run marathons but then DQ girls for these silly things. What the hell is going on ? These officials deserve a good swing of a baseball bat between the chops. Does anyone have the names and pictures of the officials who did this ?

Do you wait and try to interject Lance and doping into a thread? Non-sequitor x 10.

Do you have proof that Lance doped? No. You do not.

Did the officials have proof of the girl violated a rule that is most likely clearly noted in the rulebook? Yes.

Different situation.

BTW, there are probably thousands of people running marathons that are taking prohibited substances. Should a person taking an asthma medication and running 3:30 for a marathon be prohibited from running?

My nephew was warned heading into the state track meet that he had to dye his hair.

I think it was blue, or polka-dotted at the time. Anyway, an official told his coach and said if he showed up at state with it that color -- apparently it wasn't "natural" -- he'd be DQ'd.

The officials let known dopers like Lance Armstrong run marathons but then DQ girls for these silly things. What the hell is going on ? These officials deserve a good swing of a baseball bat between the chops. Does anyone have the names and pictures of the officials who did this ?

Yes, I am. The rule book is not that complicated...and every coach knows that certain rules are adhered to. It is the responsibility of the coach to inform the athletes of the rule.....we did it prior to EVERY SINGLE MEET....and if the athlete choses to not follow it....so be it. If they screw themselves out of a big win....it is on their shoulders.

It is called taking personal responsibility. I DO think some of the rules are too rigid and dumb...but a rule is a rule.

Angry Internet Poster wrote:

coachjones wrote:

Every high school coach knows the uniform rules upside down and inside out...

You're speaking for all of them? You know for certain that every high-school coach in Utah is aware of the most obscure and silly rules? That would be like me claiming that everyone on Letsrun claiming to be a coach has basic proficiency with English--and you give the lie to that one.

Besides, even were you correct, it's not necessarily the coach's fault. The girl might have rolled the waistband at the last minute.

Bullshit DQ and if the state high-school athletic association had a conscience and some balls they would overturn this garbage. Even if the LDS is running the show I can't imagine they are that puritanical just because they happen to follow a goofy faith.

I agree with you that not every coach knows the rules. In fact, far too few know them. But ignorance of the rules is not an excuse. It hurts the kid, and certainly over something that's ultimately pretty silly, but knowing the rules of competition is part of a coach's job. Can you possibly imagine a baseball coach appealing a game because he didn't know about the infield fly rule?

The has nothing to do with LDS. Could happen just as easily in Ohio, Florida, or Arizona (in fact, it has happened in all of them). And if the state association has as part of its bylaws that it will follow NHSF rules, then it cannot arbitrarily overturn a decision that is consistent with those rules, regardless of how they feel about the rule, the decision, or the decision-maker.

Stupid rule but a good call.

I heard an Irish runner once ran and his balls came out of his shorts during a race.maybe he might invest in compression shorts.

HS Meets are governed not by the USATF or NCAA rule book, as some have said, but by the HS Federation rule book. That particular uniform rule is in the rule book and enforced here in Washington. I don't have a rule book with me here at work, but I think the wording/meaning goes something along the line of a uniform must be worn in the manner it was designed.

This is not the pickiest rule I have heard someone getting DQ'd for, by a LONG way.

Ghost of Ashenfelter wrote:

The linesman in a football game cannot arbitrarily decide that he's not going to call offsides. And whether they like the rules or not, coaches are failing to do part of their jobs if kids either don't know the uniform and jewelry rules or if they are allowed to violate them.

I see what you're saying, but I see the offsides thing as being different because being offsides gives the football team a competitive advantage. Calling offsides in football is more similar to calling a false start in a race. A better analogy to a football call would be sideline infractions. There is a box on the sideline that players who are not in the game must stay within so that, among other reasons, the officials have room to run down the sideline. Having played high school football myself, I can tell you that this rule is, in fact, often not enforced. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be enforced, I'm just saying that officials make judgment calls regarding infractions that don't change the outcome of the competition in other sports.

It's a tough issue. On the one hand, I think that most would agree that uniform rules are stupid. On the other hand, there is no reason not to simply comply with the rules and avoid this kind of thing. You're right on in saying that the rules need to be enforced consistently. To go back to the football comparison, it would be damn confusing if a lineman blocked the same exact way every play, but was only called for holding one out of every twenty plays.

If the officials aren't going to be consistent with DQs in all meets, they should at least explain things to the athletes a little bit. It wouldn't hurt to say "Hey, this is just an early season dual meet, so I'm not going to be a hard ass about it now, but you should know that your uniform violates the rules and if you do the same thing in a bigger meet you might be DQed."

comparing running uniform rules to other sports is stupid. offsides in a football game and the infield fly rule affect the outcome of the game, and do not discriminate. uniform rules affect nothing, and do discriminate. what if there is a somewhat poor school that can't afford new uniforms, and they only have six small uniforms and one medium. does the girl who gets screwed into getting a medium have to run with her shorts falling down the whole race because her school can't afford a new uniform? rules are written by a select group of high ups, who are occasionally idiots, and don't know what's best. just because a rule is a rule doesn't mean it should or must be followed. some rules are stupid, plain and simple, and if an official can't think about a stupid rule enough to not enforce it, then s/he shouldn't be an official. if they are going to enforce every rule, then before every race, they should go through the basic rules. tell the field not to roll up shorts and to take off their watches and bracelets. in nyc, before every indoor meet at the armory, the psal officials would make sure everyone took off their jewelry, doo rags, and anything else that would make someone DQ'able.

The Games Committee is likely empowered to waive the rule with respect to a particular school which is underfunded.

You are correct that offsides affects football while uniform rules (probably) don't affect XC. That's why it's a stupid rule.

Why can't I exit the discus ring through the front, provided I have demonstrated control of my body? Why can't I take off my uniform top in the competition area? Why do I have to take my jump within 2 minutes of when my name is called? One could argue that they're all stupid and arbitrary rules, but they are applied equally to every competitor.

Moreover, how do you know that the officials DIDN'T tell everyone to take off their jewelry and run in a legal uniform? Also, while an official could tell kids to get in a legal uniform, once they report to the line they are supposed to be in full compliance. That's the athlete's and coach's responsibility, not the officials'.

Finally, if an illegal uniform doesn't provide any competitive advantage, why not just run in a legal one and avoid the exposure to the rule, however stupid it may be?

Why was she even rolling her shorts down?

????????????? wrote:

Why was she even rolling her shorts down?

I think she was rolling them up!??!?!