Zoom wrote:
Also just want to add that it is one thing to train as described above and run great when that is all you do, and it is another thing entirely to train, be a student, work part-time, etc. The guys of that era who really impressed me were men like Blackmore, Myers, Bergeson and Kuphalt.
Which guys had nothing to do but train? Cruz was a student. Hill was a student. McChesney was a student.
In '83 the guys at Oregon would have included Hill, Myers, Zishka, Blackmore might have been a freshman, Cruz was there in 84 and 85 I know. Kuphaldt was probably a freshman. A little bit later other sub 4 guys include Bergeson and Buck Jones.
I'd be curious from exxduck is how many walkons did Dellinger keep? There was a guy from Ohio around then I knew that went all the way out to Oregon to walk on and he was only a 9:18 3200 runner. Name was Chris Bahr. Never heard how he did, or if he stuck around.
jizzmo wrote:
I hear a lot about Daniels and Lydiard, but not so much about "the oregon system".
It's not like they are all independent and exclusive systems. In fact, Bowerman got alot of his concepts from his meetings and subsequent corespondence with Lydiard, and he also worked with Daniels before the 68 Olympics. Bowerman then passed this on to Dellinger, who continued to adapt it (And you could argue that Dellinger passed it on to Salazar who's adapting it for Rupp, Gouchers, Rohat).
They are all pretty much involve the same concepts:
Higher volume earlier in the season, tapering off as intensity increases, followed by a short period to freshen up before key races. Around 3 quality sessions a week, separated by easy recovery: Longer intevals (I Pace in Daniels), Shorter Reps (R Pace in Daniels) and Tempo runs (Lydiard didn't call them this, and neither did Oregon back in the 70s, but you don't have to be a genius to figure out what they were doing when they wrote "hard" in their logbooks). Also, Shorter reps can be replaced by hills earlier in the season (Mandatory in Lydiard, optional in the other). One long run a week (although Lydiard called for longer than Daniels or Oregon).
The moral is that every system has the same key concepts that you need to adapt to fit your own personal needs. If you try and follow one systems strait from the book it's probably not going to work as well as if you adapt it to your own specific needs.
From the UO website the only sub4 milers in the eighties wereCruz 3:53, 1984Myers 3:55, 1986Hill 3:56, 1982Chapa 3:57, 1981McChesney 3:59, 1980Kuphaldt 3:59, 1987Bergeson 3:59, 1987Blackmore 3:39, 1984No Zishka or Jones but Jones would later run 3:57 for CNW. Cruz was an NCAA champion in 83 & 84. He was there but not on the team in 85. Blackmore was in his 4th year of college in 1984.Chris Bahr was there for 2 1/2 years and never did anything special. I think he moved to California from there.
Captain Krunch wrote:
In '83 the guys at Oregon would have included Hill, Myers, Zishka, Blackmore might have been a freshman, Cruz was there in 84 and 85 I know. Kuphaldt was probably a freshman. A little bit later other sub 4 guys include Bergeson and Buck Jones.
I'd be curious from exxduck is how many walkons did Dellinger keep? There was a guy from Ohio around then I knew that went all the way out to Oregon to walk on and he was only a 9:18 3200 runner. Name was Chris Bahr. Never heard how he did, or if he stuck around.
Captain Krunch wrote:
In '83 the guys at Oregon would have included Hill, Myers, Zishka, Blackmore might have been a freshman, Cruz was there in 84 and 85 I know. Kuphaldt was probably a freshman. A little bit later other sub 4 guys include Bergeson and Buck Jones.
I'd be curious from exxduck is how many walkons did Dellinger keep? There was a guy from Ohio around then I knew that went all the way out to Oregon to walk on and he was only a 9:18 3200 runner. Name was Chris Bahr. Never heard how he did, or if he stuck around.
Captain Krunch: I would say that in the early 80's that there were maybe 15 walk-ons. Oregon was a fairly friendly walk-on program then. Some of those guys went on to be either Pac-10 or NCAA champions (McMonigal, Nelson). I also remember some Norweigns that got pretty fast and were scoring in the dual meets, though I'm not sure if they were recruited.
Also, don't forget about guys like Mcguirk, Randall, Morisette, that were there around '83 (as walk ons?) and were very close to 4:00
Exxx-Duck wrote:
Captain Krunch: I would say that in the early 80's that there were maybe 15 walk-ons. Oregon was a fairly friendly walk-on program then. Some of those guys went on to be either Pac-10 or NCAA champions (McMonigal, Nelson). I also remember some Norweigns that got pretty fast and were scoring in the dual meets, though I'm not sure if they were recruited.
Also, don't forget about guys like Mcguirk, Randall, Morisette, that were there around '83 (as walk ons?) and were very close to 4:00
I'd say the number of walk-ons was closer to 30 than 15.
Don't forget Marty Hemsley (sub-4 after),Jamin Aasem. Kent Hegvold was the Norwegian guy who you speak.
In the late 80s you had UCLA coach Eric Peterson (3:41) and Alan Foster (3:42)
I heard Nenow went to Eugene to train there and promptly headed back to Kentucky. I guess he liked training alone rather than with groups.
There were a lot of AW guys around in Eugene during that time. Was there any combining powers during that time? Well, certainly Salazar but were their others? Its good to hear about the Eugene of old. I believe it was the E Team?
There was no such thing as the E team.
Nenow, to his credit, never went to Eugene. He never had any desire. It's public knowledge that Byers and Tabb (adidas, not AW) trained with UO, and that's pretty much it.
Exxx-duck wrote:
Thursday: a.m. 5 sets 800/300 on dirt track. I think the rest was a 300 jog after each.
Great workout. The rest is actually 300m after the 800m and 200m after the 300m.
The entire thing is done as a cutdown (see below). This was my best.
Set1 2:15/48
Set2 2:10/47
Set3 2:08/46
Set4 2:05/44
Set5 2:00/43
Because it's done continuously and with little rest it can get quite tough. I believe it is still done several times per year in Tenley Town.
Tweeter: That is some smokin fast running to do at 7 a.m on a thursday morning! I only knew a couple of guys that could hit those splits. Great to hear from you.
Exxx-Duck wrote:
Tweeter: That is some smokin fast running to do at 7 a.m on a thursday morning! I only knew a couple of guys that could hit those splits. Great to hear from you.
800/300 wasn't ever done in the morning was it?
I never did it in the AM. Sorry for the confusion ex-duck but I don't think we know each other.
Yes the 880/330 workout was run at 7:00AM on alternate Thursdays, however I never saw anyone run those times in that era. The only Duck or non Duck who could run a workout like that at that time in Eugene was Jim Hill. BTW, WTF is Tenley Town?
[quote]Tweeter wrote:
Great workout. The rest is actually 300m after the 800m and 200m after the 300m.
The entire thing is done as a cutdown (see below). This was my best.
Set1 2:15/48
Set2 2:10/47
Set3 2:08/46
Set4 2:05/44
Set5 2:00/43
Because it's done continuously and with little rest it can get quite tough. I believe it is still done several times per year in Tenley Town.[/quote
fact check wrote:
Yes the 880/330 workout was run at 7:00AM on alternate Thursdays, however I never saw anyone run those times in that era. The only Duck or non Duck who could run a workout like that at that time in Eugene was Jim Hill. BTW, WTF is Tenley Town?
WTF? The only Duck or non-duck who could run a workout like that was Jim Hill. Do you really believe that? Please, it's not even a very difficult workout to do.
Set1 2:15/48
Set2 2:10/47
Set3 2:08/46
Set4 2:05/44
Set5 2:00/43
Tenley Town is in Washington DC.
Actual 880/330 workouts by the Varsity guys at Oregon in 1984
1-19-84
2:38, 52, 2:28, 49, 2:24, 49, 2:17, 45
2-2-84
2:28, 50, 2:17, 47, 2:08, 43
2-16-84
2:30. 50, 2:18, 48, 2:07, 44
3-22-84
2:18, 46, 2:13, 44, 2:09, 43
3-29-84
2:39, 52, 2:28, 49, 2:17, 42
4-12-84
2:39, 51, 2:27, 48, 2:19, 44
9-6-84
2:39, 52, 2:31, 51, 2:19, 47, 2:10, 43
9-20-84
2:29, 51, 2:17, 48, 2:06, 43
10-4-84
2:40, 51, 2:30, 51, 2:20, 47, 2:18, 48
11-1-84
2:15, 49, 2:11, 46, 2:04, 43
[quote]Been there too wrote:
WTF? The only Duck or non-duck who could run a workout like that was Jim Hill. Do you really believe that? Please, it's not even a very difficult workout to do.
It is harder that it sounds at 7 a.m., in 20 degree weather, on a dirt track, in trainers. It also seemed like the 300 "recovery" was run at about 6:30 pace. Also, not many guys wanted to push this workout knowing that in the afternoon was some hill work, a tempo run and 300 cut downs.
I agree with Fact check....Jim Hill, Byers, or McChessney could do it, not many else.
I did that workout in late January in spikes. It wasn't easy but it also wasn't 7am.
That was a 10am Saturday workout although we normally did 'em on Thursday afternoons.
Oh DC. The Enclave. That explains a lot. And yes, at 7:00AM, in the fog and rain and on a dirt track in Eugene that woukout would be tough to do. And yes again, Jim Hill was usually the star of that show and was probably the only guy in town who would do it at 7:00AM in the fog and rain on a dirt track in Eugene. The guys from that era who tried to race the workouts usually didn't compete when it counted. And as for your claim that it's not a difficult workout,,, love to see you do it.
WTF? The only Duck or non-duck who could run a workout like that was Jim Hill. Do you really believe that? Please, it's not even a very difficult workout to do.
Set1 2:15/48
Set2 2:10/47
Set3 2:08/46
Set4 2:05/44
Set5 2:00/43
Tenley Town is in Washington DC[/quote]
Exxx-Duck wrote:
I agree with Fact check....Jim Hill, Byers, or McChessney could do it, not many else.
I disagree. There's nothing about that 800/300 workout to even cause someone to raise an eyebrow. There would be hundreds who passed through that program who could have, and have done, similar workouts.
I know Dellinger tinkered a lot, but when did he prescribe tempo runs in the afternoon? When has it ever been 20 degrees at 7am? That's rare in Eugene, besides, "Tweeter" said that workout wasn't in the morning.
As I said to the other guy, I'd really love to see YOU do that workout Malmo. And to say that 'hundreds' could do that workout is possible. Did it happen in Eugene at that time. No. Plus, your reply doesn't make much sense. Go to bed.
I disagree. There's nothing about that 800/300 workout to even cause someone to raise an eyebrow. There would be hundreds who passed through that program who could have, and have done, similar workouts.
I know Dellinger tinkered a lot, but when did he prescribe tempo runs in the afternoon? When has it ever been 20 degrees at 7am? That's rare in Eugene, besides, "Tweeter" said that workout wasn't in the morning.[/quote]