rojo wrote:
In my mind, there really are two sets of results....
... They weren't beaten by Korir as they finished ahead of him.
Look at it this way. By your logic, the winners of the 10,000 slow heat at Mt Sac aren't beaten by the winner of the (evening) fast heat, because their head start doesn't matter. "They finished ahead of him".
Um, are the results of the two "heats" at Mt. SAC compiled into a single aggregate? No, because they're actually two different, separate races. ANALOGY FAIL
korir gets the money. prize money is based on GUN TIME. there were two gun times today - elite and OPEN. so korir's time was his official gun time . .. therefore, he gets the money.
Prizes should absolutely be given according to finish order - when everyone starts with the same gun. But the 5 minute start difference completely negates this.
Korir tried to get into the elite wave, and probably should have been let in if given proper consideration. It is the fault of the race organizers that he started 5 minutes behind so the race organizers should pony up an ADDITIONAL $15k.
One gun per race, unless someone falls in the first 200m.
u dumfuk wrote:
Um, are the results of the two "heats" at Mt. SAC compiled into a single aggregate? No, because they're actually two different, separate races. ANALOGY FAIL
You're the dumbass. They had separate results for the elites and non-elites in Chicago because they ran two separate races. Same course, same distance, but considerably different start time, similar to the Mt. SAC 10k. ANALYSIS FAIL
turkey leg wrote:
It is the fault of the race organizers that he started 5 minutes behind so the race organizers should pony up an ADDITIONAL $15k.
Definitely.
Also, didn't Boston have something like thise during the last "stormy" year, what about 3 years ago now. Only it was a masters women who ran not with the elite women but the masses that could have gotten some prize money.
RE: This is what I hate about the elite women's start
I'm not sure how to post an old thread, but after doing a search here is the title to a short thread about a similar situation.
That doesn't invalidate the original claim that the other guy tried to counter with the inapt analogy. ATTENTION SPAN FAIL
From the Chicago Marathon website regarding the Top 100 Program:
Timing: Clock time (Gun time) is official for all Top 100 Start participants. The official times will be recorded from the start of the race by the air horn to the point where the participant crosses the finish line. Times shall be rounded to the next highest second. Net times ("chip" times) will not be used for any purpose regarding Top 100 Start participants.
So, it looks like for the Top 100 Program chip time doesn't matter.
Either way, hell of a run for Korir.
The elite isn't an open field. It's Carey's to decide who runs, correct? If he didn't want him in the race, for what ever reason, that's his perrogative, right?
Heathen wrote:
From the Chicago Marathon website regarding the Top 100 Program:
Timing: Clock time (Gun time) is official for all Top 100 Start participants.
So, it looks like for the Top 100 Program chip time doesn't matter.
Korir wasn't part of the Top 100 Start participants so this rule does not apply to him.
If the race organization has the balls to label race applicants elite or other, they assume responsibility of these situations.
Either way, the race organization should decide how many races they are running. The only reasonable way not to owe Korir $$$$$ is to declare him the winner of a second race, the "citizen race", and clarify that the "elite race" is by invite only.
a couple of years ago duncan kibet was not an invited runner to the san jose marathon so he paid his own way and entry fee and won the race.
also a couple of years ago asmae leghoui (i am unsure of names spelling) was not getting in as an invited runner at any race because she was a convicted drug cheat coming off a ban, and she won most of her races, but eliteracing diector the late mike long told her she was not welcome in the races he put on, but she entered with the masses, so long literally pulled her off the course and tried to give her entry money back.
these are 2 different cases from chicago, but it shows in the case of korir and kibet that sometimes you get an good runner in the field who can upset the way things are supposed to go.
and in leghoui's case drug cheats do not have to be allowed in races even after the ban is over.
if chicago had just stayed with the plan for a mass start there would be no controversy and mass starts give unkowns the possibilty of making a name for them selves. i also think that even if you are not an invited runner you should be allowed in any race open to the public.
Chicago is turning into idiotsville.
Seriously start the people together.
One race
The whole goal was to keep men out of the women TV picture..
Funny that luck would have it the lead women would sit on a male in the later half of the race.. blocking the picture.
Each year before the race they threaten us sub-elites, that if we block any of the women from camera view, we will be disqualified. Well what happens if they try and sit on us?
1 race, 1 winner...
HYPOCRIT ALERT
Why is it that when a guy runs 2:22:02 gun time that works out to 2:21:58 you idiots yell and scream that he didn't run the standard and therefore should be left out of the trials?
Now a guy starts 5 minutes late and you want him included.
Which way is it, gun time or chip time?
Yup, really stupid idea to try to solve what's really a non-issue. Go with slightly overhead shots if men happen to block the tv cameras' view. Who really cares about the lead pack for men or women for the first 5 or even 10 miles of a marathon? It's a freaking race and fans aren't turning off their sets in disgust because they can't get a clear view of elite female x due to the Willem Dafoe look-alike running with the women. Maybe a better idea would be to go with separate starting lines for all men and all women and have the two merge onto a single course at 3-6 miles. That would be much smarter (not to mention cooler) than what they did today.
Chicago's race organization can't win for losing, more and more they look like they're all about the $$ and racing and competitiveness be damned. I'm just glad I have zero desire to ever set tread on that course and deal with spendy hobbyjoggers.
For the race today, the gun time shouldn't be affected by the delay between the elite and the mass starts. There was one start for the elites with a clock set at 0:00:00 and then five minutes later the masses started with a clock set at 0:00:00. Prize money is a different matter than gun or chip times. Order in crossing the finish line is what matters for prize money. Chicago went with a ridiculous concept and hopefully they have to pay for it.
All of you little babies that cried for the last 2 weeks because Matt Peletier or Allen Wagner couldn't start with the elite runners are destroying the sport. Isn't it funny that a KENYAN was the only one cheated by the separate starts.
In case you babies are curious, and I know this for a fact.
Because you cry about everything and are thankful for nothing the Trials marathon standard has been changed to 2:19. Why? In an attempt to eliminate YOU. Just wait and see how much the womens standard stay the same.
Fyi. Duncan Kibet was given a comp'd entry for Rock n Roll San Jose. He made a very last minute request, and the field was already set. However, he did indeed fill out a comp'd entry form, and prize money documents.
As for Wesley---question is "is the Elite race an invitational only" meaning, can Carey invitean and pay whoever he chooses.....many races do this, its a good way to keep suspected drug cheats out, bad agents out, and in general support those who have supported the race in the past. Though this puts Carey in a bind--how can you NOT pay him, and it turn into another Chicago Marathon pr disaster (see last year's heat repsonse for example)
Cheers.
Regardless of the rules or legal issues, Chicago will end up paying Korir $15,000.
The bad PR Chicago race officials will receive if they don't pay, will do more damage than if they shell out the $15,000. And if Korir goes to court, Chicago will pay more than $15,000 to defend itself. Korir might even be able to go to small claims court and represent himself if he keeps his request for damages to $10,000. That would be embarassing for Chicago.
This is an easy decision. Pay the $15,000, invite him over for a fancy dinner and turn this PR disaster into something positive by acknowledging this remarkable achievement.