Lydiard Aerobic Phase

James the 3rd,

Listen man, the Lydiard method is available to all, you can learn it, then comment on it. I'm guessing you haven't taken then time.

You tell me the general jist of what these 27 and below runners are doing...lay it out. I'd like to know.

First off, Lydiard unearthed what happens to the body when you put it through endurance training and apply a correct balance of aerobic and anaerobic training. Again he unearthed it, he didn't invent it.

However, he learned how to apply it well. Was a great motivator and posessed an inate ability to get an athlete to peak on time.

Lydiard put it together, but it's everyone's domain. Take it, apply it and it's yours. You are then just using what Lydiard first uncovered. Maffetone did to a degree, Bowerman, Kellog, Dellinger, Daws, Dixon, McMillan....and many others.

Because it is just human physiologal reaction to endurance training, tidied up a bit, you will see the east Africans train (indirectly) the way Lydiard would have them train, without ever knowing his name - by route of their lifestyle.

Now you go and read up on Lydiard, again the information is everywhere and you come back and tell me what you learned.

But before you do that, what is it that you are implying the 27 minuters do???

I'm dying to know.

It's like the founder of Aikido is called the founder because he found it. He never claimed to have invented it, it was always there.

When Arthur went to Kenya, i heard he exclaimed to them that head nothing to teach them, they were already doing it.

Not sure if you guys have seen this but it's pretty interesting. It's a detailed look at what the top 20 800m runners of all time did for their base training.

http://z12.invisionfree.com/Hunter_Reports/index.php?showtopic=432

No. The time trials are not run all out. You'd run them at a pretty high level of effort but you wouldn't have an all out kick at the finish. you'd go fast but not all out.

That's a very good point and I think it's something that doesn't get nearly enough consideration. Lydiard didn't invent a kind of training anymore than Newton invented gravity. In each case they discovered something that was already there.

Other coaches and athletes made discoveries similar to what Lydiard did. Ron Hill and Frank Shorter come to mind immediately as guys who worked out their training more or less on their own and what they ended up doing wasn't all that dissimilar to Lydiard's approach.

As to those sub 27 guys, most of them are Kenyans and as you mention, Lydiard was predicting the African dominance of the sport thirty years ago because he saw that they were doing the same sorts of developmental things that he tried to make happen for his athletes. That's why I'm always sort of puzzled by people who look at Kenyans and claim their success proves that Lydiard is outdated. If anything, I've always thought they show that he was right.

Simply Newton was the first one to refer the gravity rules.

Lydiard isn´t the first one to refer any aspect of his training method. May be he was the first to have the interes and the oportunity to write books in the english language about that running overview.

To be correct you shall reverse the sentence. That´s Lydiard that made similar discoveries what the others did.

Once agian a geocentric opinion. For you all turns around Lydiard, as the earth is the center of the universe. The earth is not the center neither the Sun in what would be an heliocentric system.

Innapropriate. That´s Lydiard that resembles to what that guys do and the coaches of that guys do sme of them disagree with Lydiard.

Are you sure it is not your reactionary nature misconstruing thing oops i've done it again?

I think the first sentence you quoted from HRE sums it up doesn't it. Lydiard didn't invent a new kind of training. He just discovered what was there as did others in their own journey. You too can discover whatever it is that all of these people have discovered if you wish. Nobody is going to charge you for it. I think all that is required is to actually try it out for yourself for a while and then assess. If you have the open mind you accused the Lydiard supporters of not having then surely it wouldn't be too difficult to do an experiment?

hello antonio. :)

What cracks me up is these "experts" who view history as though it only started with their awareness. Lydiard developed his system in relative isolation down under and away.He experimented on himself and proceeded to share what worked. He didn't have the internet ( hard to believe!)

Unfortunately the ignorant view what the 27's are doing today not the full body of wokr that it took to arrive at 27. A quick hint many ran ( main mode of trnasportation) to schools etc in their formative years long before 27s came along.

Peter Winter wrote:

It's like the founder of Aikido is called the founder because he found it. He never claimed to have invented it, it was always there.

When Arthur went to Kenya, i heard he exclaimed to them that head nothing to teach them, they were already doing it.

Not sure if you guys have seen this but it's pretty interesting. It's a detailed look at what the top 20 800m runners of all time did for their base training.

http://z12.invisionfree.com/Hunter_Reports/index.php?showtopic=432

That article is stupid to say the least. Those runners who say they´re doing high mileage are believed, but when runners, like Coe, Cruz or Borza claims they´re doing low mileage then the author immediately starts to look for other sources, some of which are very obscure. It is never the other way around: "Hmm, I heard a guy saying that Snell never did high mileage, so that it probably the truth."

troll:) wrote:

What cracks me up is these "experts" who view history as though it only started with their awareness. Lydiard developed his system in relative isolation down under and away.He experimented on himself and proceeded to share what worked. He didn't have the internet ( hard to believe!)

Unfortunately the ignorant view what the 27's are doing today not the full body of wokr that it took to arrive at 27. A quick hint many ran ( main mode of trnasportation) to schools etc in their formative years long before 27s came along.

Did lydiard invent running to school too?

Ok I 'll bite. Typical imbecile remark by a dip stick. Learn history, read better yet learn to comprehend. trouble with people like you, too damn lazy to think, would rather have it laid out for ya rather than explore investigate and have to use that empty space between yer ears. My guess is mama drives you to school.

Nice work idiots! Coe Cruz and Borza? How does Borza do low mileage? You forgot Juantorena. So 3 of the top 20 all time don;t go up to 80 ro 100 miles a week in preparation period. Do you live in a democracy like me? That's 17 out of 20 high mileage guys. Nice try.

Hello Closed Mind,

Borza:

Borza's coach says Borza was doing 110 km a week with a max of 12-14 km runs, but also said "Although he (Borzakovskiy) was telling me about how he liked to do longer runs a lot. 20, sometimes even 30 kilometers around the village."

Conflicting stories there.

Also, although he said they don't chase volume and don't count the kms, he did say that "during the preparatory period, we try to get 16-18 kilometers and up to 20 km when he (Yuriy) trains twice a day"

So at the minimum - 70 miles per week. Is that low?

Source reliable or not? Granted it may not be. But likely is - given it is from JRinaldi - a poster here who seems to be able to get his hands on training of the champs

Cruz:

For two months - Re adaption Period

Week 1: three miles every other day

Week 2: five miles every other day

Week 3: four miles every day

Week 4: six miles every day (68 km per week)

Week 5-8: six miles every other day, plus 1.5 - 2.0 hours easy running and gymnastics every other day

Then Cruz did three months of Basic Preparation where he ran no more than 55 miles (88 km) per week

Straight from Runners World Magazine - Obscure?? I think not.

One other source is noted by the author and it is clear that the author accepts it as maybe not reliable - note "you be the judge" comment!

Coe:

There was a very balanced account with arguments for high mileage and low mileage

Here are some for the high mileage

Direct quotations

David Martin: Rather than running 100 to 120 miles a week like many runners, Coe would run 60 to 75 miles (96 to 120 km) a week of basework. It was hard hard work

In May there was a gradual changeover to anaerobic work.

Cutting back to 60 miles per week and then to 30 miles a week.

Seb: "I hadn’t trained for 10 years mile upon mile in some of the harshest northern winters, I hadn’t lifted hundreds and hundreds of weights, to go home empty-handed."

source noted.

Peter Coe: "Seb was trained in an orthodox fashion using known methods."

Source Coming Back, Coe's autobiography written post Los Angeles.

The schedules given in Peter Coe's book (written with Dr David Martin) peak at 80 miles per week for a middle distance runner with 16 weeks of averaging just over 70 miles per week

Source Better Training for Distance Runners, 2nd ed,Human Kinetics 1997

"Everywhere from my front door was effectively up, and there was a run we used to do often that was uphill for 10 miles," he remembers. "We'd be out in all weathers..."

and the Renato Canova quotaion - direct link to source again.

ALL RELIABLE SOURCES - not obscure

So Borza and Coe were doing at least 70 and Cruz did 90 min runs.

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Does the article contradict what you may have believed your whole life? That would be challenging. Time for you to open your eyes.

Conclusion: It's all Lydiard. Igloi is Lydiard. Canova is Lydiard. Coe is Lydiard. Everyone is Lydiard.

So, anybody who does really well, is actually following Lydiard. It must be so.

And who, other than you, is saying that?

Peter Coe and Dave Martin they are very Lydiard influenced. Despite it haven´t a single reference in the book of both that says so in fact Peter he signs for the Lydiard Foundation recently so they are adepts. But where Borza coach says he is a Lydiard influenced ? Or the simple fact that Borza do some mileage and some other training detail that is similar to what Lydiard did put him a Lydiard ?

The credit of Lydiard is not simply that 17 olympic medals. 17 is with the Finns and all Kiwis that werený direct coached by Lydiard but doe~s it matters really ? Add Frank Shorter in that summ. Add Coe and Steve Cram. Someone needs calcul that once again. The number isný 17 but closer to 117 or is 271. All African sub 27 are in that Lydiard group of olimpic medal excellence and actually we know that Juantorena and Borza they both are among that Lydiard group of olympic nomination.

I can´t remember a single olympic medal that isn´t Lydiard considered. Do you ?

ps In a recent declaration M. Johnson says that his main influence is no one but Lydiard

65blocked wrote:

hello antonio. :)

who us antonio ? antonio pettigrew ?

Just run baby.