Hall is running London

Haven't read this whole thread but;

It's about money and opportunity and the fickle finger of IOC idiocy when it comes to the Marathon and other distance events.

The Olympic Marathon/10k in perhaps 100 degree weather and high smog is no place to pin your hopes. Olympic Marathon glory is bestowed on a few talented guys who have a great day, on the right day, even in perfect weather. Although it is tough to swallow, what is wrong with cashing in some chits while your iron is hot.

I saw Ryan at the FootLocker XC Nationals, he was looking for something to get him excited about in his spring running. He was very excited about mixing it up with the Big Boys in London prior to Beijing

One good thing is that the London course can't hurt you, but it will make 4 marathons in 4 half seasons including Beijing. He is one of the few athletes who can pull adrenaline from his system and use it in a positive way

watch out for him, he is a very dangerous athlete if he draws from his adrenaline system.....

I would predict very very good things to happen in London/Beijing, good for him

Rockafella wrote:

Correction....Hal is running London

Hal, the computer in "2001-a space odyssey"?

I'm not sure what the big fuss is all about. Ryan is running the race because he is confident he has enough time to build back for BEIJING. The Olympic marathon is not until August 24th. He'll be fine.

So I'll sum up some salient points made by others:

1) The iron is hot - Ryan needs to strike now while he can. He proved what he is capable of in London and the Trials (a sub 2:07 marathon). Now he gets a chance to actually do it. Just like his Houston half marathon, this has the potential to be great for American distance running. If he goes low, he will automatically make the rest of America better.

2) Ryan is reaching the upper echelon of marketability - he needs to take advantage of this by leveraging his last two efforts for a big payday.

3) Beijing will be a crap shoot - No one can predict or properly prepare for a hot marathon. It will truly be a game of chance. Why sit out for that long when you'll probably have the same odds of doing well with two or three marathons under your belt.

4) The benefit of being a sub 2:07 guy - A very good point was made that, aside from the money, if Ryan can pop a good time it will set him up tactically at Beijing. And Beijing will be a tactical race.

5) 3 marathons in 9 1/2 months is too much - no argument there. If it's not working he will need to shut it down or drop out. It's too bad that this might come at a price for America's best Olympic prospect. We know about Ritz, how does Sell do in hot weather?

So is it a great decision - no. Is it a bad decision - no. Is it a good decision - definitely, 4 out of 5 ain't bad.

Don't get to excited. Most of these guys will decide not to run London...wait and see.

Jefe in the CO wrote:

4) The benefit of being a sub 2:07 guy - A very good point was made that, aside from the money, if Ryan can pop a good time it will set him up tactically at Beijing. And Beijing will be a tactical race.

I've never raced, so this is a serious question. Why are there tactical races? It seems to me that a tactical race, if you are the fastest person out there, just gives other people, who can stay with a slower pace and might have a faster sprint, a chance to win. Why do this? I was wondering this when Bekele lost the 5000 to ElG. Why let a guy with a faster finishing kick stay with you? Lose him!

if you just lead the whole way you make it easier for everyone to beat you. you might have the fastest pr in the race, but you can only run that time if you have somebody to draft at the beginning.

DontFeedTheTroll wrote:

I've never raced, so this is a serious question. Why are there tactical races?

Please start your own thread with this crap.

As for what this thread is really for (Hall and marathon running):

Hall is a true professional that has the balls to act as a professional marathon runner - run marathons at the top level. Wejo's comparison of previous OG/WC marathon champs (end of page 1) is dead on. He's really young and really durable and really fit and London's a great course to do it on - fast times and better recovery. Everybody's sitting around and waiting for us to start competing with and beating the Africans - well guess what Ryan Hall is doing? He's racing them.

if the Trials were in the spring, how many of the runners would have run a fall marathon? Most of the contenders..otherwise its 3 straight missed paydays..(Fall/Trials/Olympics) instead of 1, quite a bit of coin

as for those who didn't make the team, I think its a good idea and benefit for a Fall date...why not allow Meb, Abdi, Culpepper, Carney, etc the chance for a proper buildup and not have to rush if they are nursing injuries etc in the weeks leading from a spring qualifier to the track in the summer...it also allows them a full slate of racing and making some $ along the way..

then again, until we start to become a consistent threat again, it as Joey Tribbiani is known to say "a moo point"

If it's going to hurt him for the Olympics, he shouldn't do it. I understand all the points about striking while the iron is hot and wanting to mix up with the big boys and the Bejing heat is going to make the Olympics a crap shoot. But the bottom line is that the Olympics is still the Olympics. It may be a different story for the African runners, but for an American, there is no substitute for success at an Olympic level, and there is no telling whether Hall is ever going to have this kind of shot at a medal in subsequent Olympics.

Now that really begs the question of whether three marathons in 9 1/2 months is in fact too much. It certainly is a bit more than most people do, but maybe Hall thinks he can pull it off. Time will tell, but I think it's awfully dangerous, and that the more prudent course would be to run some shorter races leading up to the Olympics and then cash in in 2009 and beyond.

Glim Lestes wrote:

This is not doubling back. It is tripling back. You can't pretend that the Trials never existed. The Olympic Marathon will be Hall's THIRD in 9 and a half months.

These athletes, all of whom are contenders for a medal in Beijing, will be doing three marathons over the same, or similar, time period as Ryan Hall. They have already been selected, or are likely to be selected, by their federations for an Olympic team berth:

Stefano Baldini (NYC, London, Beijing)

Martin Lel (same)

Hendrick Ramaala (same)

Abderrahim Goumri (same)

Jaouad Gharib (Chicago, London, Beijing)

Samuel Wanjiru (Fukuoka, London, Beijing)

Robert Kipkoech Cheruiyot (Chicago, Boston, Beijing)

Yonas Kifle (Amsterdam, London, Beijing)

Interestingly, both Wanjiru and Kifle are less experienced in the marathon than Ryan Hall, only having run one apeice; Goumri has only run two.

--DFM

Also I think people are missing that 10 months is a long time to just train. Most people work better on shorter cycles then that. So your left with a few choices, a season focused on shorter races, 10k or half marathon or train for a marathon you never run, just do the training cycle or really stretch out your training cycle or run a spring marathon. I my self would have without a doubt done a spring marathon in Hall's position not for the money, though that is nice, but because it for me would be the best way to prepare for the Olympic marathon. There is a reason all those other top flight guys are running the same or similar schedules. Those are not men who give away any race lightly never mind a shot at an Olympic gold medal.

Glim Lestes wrote:

Mr. Johnson,

I am not criticizing Ryan Hall for running London. I am however very critical of the idiots resonsible for having the trials in November. Months before the trials, Glenn Latimer claimed that by having the trials in November the Olympians would have 10 months to focus on "just the games". I said this was bull shit. I said that any athlete that had a break out race would be scooped up by London or Boston. I also said that others would focus on track and we would be in a wait and see stage to find out who are Olympians are. WELL, HERE WE ARE. I am sure that Boston will be coming out with something about adding Brian Sell to their field.

In all fairness to USATF, the ATHLETES, especially the marathoners have been complaning about the trials marathon being too close to the Games since the days of TAC. They have historically been the ones wanting it pushed back so they "could train for the Games."

....19 weeks to recover from your fastest marathon and get ready for the biggest marathon in your life is a risky move...especially considering how tough bejing is going to be......a race most smart marathoners would not do unless they goal was to make money at the expense of representing their god-given country....hall appetite for glory and $ will be his downfall at bejing..........

hall has a plan and he believes in it. he knows his body better than us. how about you just let things happen and let hall make the decisions he feels are correct.

I think that we have seen this before. Meb ran a 2:10:04 in October of 2003. He ran negative splits and looked like he could of run a couple minutes faster. He then ran the trials in February and the Olympics in September. He looked great. He then ran New York 2 months later. This schedule was financially rewarding and it appeared like there was no limit for this guy. Now his past 3 marathons were a 2:15, a DNF, and a 2:22. People that haven't been paying attention were suprized by his trials performance. Not me, this was a result of chasing the dollar. I fear that Ryan Hall is heading down the same path.

Ok come on it should be obvious that your completely wrong just based on the list of top notch guys who are doing the same thing. Lets face Hall and his coaches know a whole lot more about getting ready for this sort of race then you who sit around bitching about not having his talent. But I'm willing to bet you weren't running 80 miles a week plus from your sophomore year in hs on to find out if you had that talent. Just another letsrun message board loser who never had the guts to find out what he could do but feels he has the "god-given" right to put down, second guess and complain about those who do.

wejo wrote:

Im average wrote:

And as far as money goes, hell and all the others were going to have to skip a payday either in the fall or in the spring, so it more or less evens out doesnt it. Unless you are suggesting they eliminate the trials altogether.

It doesn't even out if you assume top notch marathons run 2 marathons a year and take the assumption that the US Olympic participants are supposed to skip a spring marathon with the fall Trials.

Spring Trials

2007 spring payday; fall payday

2008 Olympic Trials, Olympics

Fall Trials

2007 spring payday, olympic Trials

2008 nothing, Olympics

It's one less marathon they would be running and 1 less payday.

I see reasons to have a fall date, I just don't like it being presented that everyone is in agreement it is universally better. Obviously there is a lot of disagreement.

Obviously Hall has proven you don't have to skip a spring payday after a fall Trials. (time will tell the wisdom of same). However, it seems obvious that he was worth more (in appearance fees) after his Trials run than before.

Seems like the top 3 will take 3 different paths to Beijing: Hall, spring marathon, Ritz, possible/likely track campaign, then choose his Oly event, Sell, train like hell for 10 months. Different courses for different horses - the fall Trials gives each the chance to choose, whereas spring would not have.