Georgetown

They should have DQed her for crawling...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/highschool/news/story?id=3111847&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab8pos1

As I've said before, and I saw this happening. He quit. His coach told him that he had to finish and made sure that Taye went back to the spot that he got off the course at and I believe even a little before that on the course.

Sending a letter to the NCAA like that one guy said would be ridiculous. You don't have the facts straight, so before going through that and possibly hurting a good team's reputation, you should figure things out first.

Also, I'm not associated with Georgetown at all, just a fan and spectator.

laughing lurker wrote:

Runitse wrote:

I don't care if he left the course, had a few beers and read the newspaper. G-town should be allowed to have the guy walk in for last place. Having the other 4 run as well as they did is quite an accomplishment and they deserve the 13th they got.

...and steriods and epo are ok if you can pass the drug test.

As a matter of fact yeah that would be fine too. Who f'in cares....ITS LAST PLACE.

Go ask your priest if the boy should have finished what he started after cheating! Nice comments about be Catholic!

This isn't about religion (althought the Catholic's should keep their mouths shut) it is about ethics! Something that doesn't get taught anymore!

If he left the course, he should be dq'ed and the Georgetown coaches should report that. If he did not leave the course, then leave it alone.

I was along the fence right where he first went down. it looked like one of those completely out of gas incedents. His legs buckled and he went down on his hands and knees. He tried to get back up but he was pretty well shot and physically out it. I took off for the finish before seeing what else went down. These things happen in super-intense competitions all the time.

Hoya Bar on Campus wrote:

If he left the course, he should be dq'ed and the Georgetown coaches should report that. If he did not leave the course, then leave it alone.

So if he steps off the course to pass out, wakes back up a minute later, he persuades his coach that he's fine to finish the race, he gets back on the course in the same EXACT spot, then he should be DQ'd???

If the kid cut the course and finished, then yes, georgetown should be DQ'ed.

If he returned to the point at which he stepped off the course and completed the race then I think they should be fine.

The Georgetown getting mad after the race doesn't mean they cheated - of course he's going to be pissed having 2 guys drop out completely and one guy walk/jog to last place. I'd like to hear exactly what happened from Georgetown's fifth dude and also what the rules state. I've always heard that if you run off course, but return to the point at which you left the course then you are okay. Obviously this is an extreme case, but if allowable then I don't understand what the big deal is.

Why is this even an issue? It has been stated several times that he did NOT cut the course. If he did not cut the course, then he should not be DQ'd. So unless someone has evidence that he did cut the course, this is not an issue.

It has "been stated several times that he did NOT cut the course." By who, Letsrun posters? Georgetown supporters. It has also been stated that he did cut the course several times. You arguement has flaws. This would not have occured under Gags.

Captain Haddock wrote:

A few flaws with the argument:

what if you have more than one team with a drop out?

what if you start with only 4 or less?

Then there's the general argument: cross country is challenging. It's not a marathon, but there is still no guarantee that any runner can finish the course. It's easy to look at Monday's runners and say that the course could have been easily jogged by any of them, but that's not always the case due to injuries and so forth.

The sport is cross-country running, not scoring cross-country meets.

If Georgetown's 5th runner didn't run the entire course, he should be DQed, and Georgetown should lose its team score.

i haven't exactly thought about this issue thoroughly of course, i just think that in certain instances in track and cross country, collegiate (and also high school) level athletes should not be forced or encouraged to meaninglessly finish a race when injured. perhaps it would be different if cross country had a time limit to allow a runner to be a scored runner, but it doesn't. to suggest that a team that qualifies for nationals couldn't have 5 people walk 6.2 miles seems pretty silly.

to respond to your particular points, there are easy ways to handle the multiple-drop out situation. off the top of my head the most fair seems to be giving every drop-out runner the worst possible score in a tie. for example, if you have 95 finishers and 5 drop-outs, all 5 drop-outs would score in 100th place.

and the starting with 4 or less is a red herring.

the thing is, there is no possible benefit to be gained by a team taking advantage of my suggested policy. you might suggest that it would encourage a coach to tell his athletes to go for broke without fear of not finishing the race. but this rule wouldn't provide a benefit for such a strategy. all it would do is protect the health of the athletes. instead of a coach forcing a dangerously exhausted athlete to walk, say, 2k, the athlete could receive any necessary medical attention immediately.

i'd suggest the same policy for the NCAA track championships. if you have an event with an 8-person final, any person injured during the race should still be given the points for finishing last. i see no harm in such a policy, as long as the athlete is barred from competing in any other event in the meet. again, it would be easy to develop a policy for multiple non-finishers. here, i'd suggest treating it as if all non-finishers tied. for example, in an 8-person final 2 people drop out, those two are treated as if they tied for 7th.

i will readily admit these aren't perfect solutions and i will also readily admit that there isn't a pressing problem, at least not with respect to cross country, because the situation arises infrequently.

it just seems to me that the NCAA would want rules protecting athletes from unnecessary injury or other medical harm. by removing the incentive for a coach to tell an injured and/or exhausted athlete to drag himself across the finish line for no practical purpose, you protect the athletes a little bit more without harming anyone.

People! This is why there are 7 guys in the race. In case something happens to one or even two of them.

Part of cross-country running having consistent runners. A lot of the time a vital role on a team is that 7th runner who isn't an all-star but who you know is good for that 32:30 when you need it. That guy is just as important as the one who might have a breakthrough race and be an unexpected 3rd All-American, but who also might totally blow up and have to drop out.

In a 8 person final, what if an athlete stepped off the track, sat on the infield for a while, started walking towards the infield, then was told to re-join the race. So he/ she goes back to the place where they left and starts running again. Is that legal? NO.

Hopefully the Gtown kid covered the whole distance. If he got off the course but returned at the same spot (no advantage gained) and finished out, then, more power to him. If he cut the course then he should be DQ'd and Georgetown should not record a team score. That's all a no brainer.

Thank you! Now, it is up to the kid in question AND the coach to admit what went down.

Have Taye, or the G-Town coach said anything yet?

Great. We've got some stating that he did cut the course, and others stating he did not cut the course. Come on people. Do we want to look bad also? Lets get the facts straight.

If the G'town runner left the course which is marked by white lines then he is considered to have abandoned the race. An athlete can not leave the track, and then come back on the track, even in the same place.

this race happened on a track?

a wrote:

this race happened on a track?

wow, your sarcasm is so clever and biting. nice!

damn, now you've got me doing it.

anyways, i agree with the people who think you shouldn't be able to re-join the race after dropping out. we're not talking about him getting pushed over and falling across the boundary. if he willingly left the racing surface he should be done. what other sport can you essentially forfeit and then go "oh wait...i've changed my mind"?