B Trials Qualifiers Being Treated Separately than A Trials Qualifiers During the Race?

truth and beauty wrote:

I agree with MAYEROFF (for once)

the course..sucks

media exposure...no better than before

You do realize that the New York Times has written 3-4 articles already on the upcoming trials and competitors. What are the chances this premier national publication, whose articles are syndicated in many local newspapers, would have written any if the trials were held in the middle of nowhere? Can you say a blurb the day after with the name of the winner?

Already the media exposure on a national level is head and shoulders above any of the recent marathon trials and the race won't happen until November.....

So, it's OK for the elites at most races to get special treatment over those finishing in sub-elite times, but it's just not OK at trials? Why?

Also, why is there a "B" standard when the "A" and "B" get you exactly the same thing, anyway. So dumb.

A-standard = travel and hotel accomodations paid for.

bull wrote:

So, it's OK for the elites at most races to get special treatment over those finishing in sub-elite times, but it's just not OK at trials? Why?

Also, why is there a "B" standard when the "A" and "B" get you exactly the same thing, anyway. So dumb.

So, how about if they decide on how much it costs to support personalized bottles. Then they could subsidize it for the A qualifiers and make the B qualifiers pay. I bet most of the B runners won't bother.

I was frustrated when I found out the "discounted" rooms were $399. On top of the plane tickets, it would be another 1200 bucks for the 4 nights (I'm flying across country now, time change and I've never been to New York need to look at the course at least once before the race). Only the "A" guys get a meal stipend too.

THe ironic part is most of the "A" guys would get the trip paid for anyway, the "B" guys would benefit most from travel paid. Shit, I PAY for my running shoes.

But, the beauty of running is you just run faster and things should happen. Also, most people on this message board are passionate runners and we would run if we had to pay money just to walk out the door to train. Those things I mentioned are simply frustrations when I think about them, they don't change my love for the sport.

The lack of water stops could be a disadvantage. For example, putting some erogenic aid (like in accelerade) in your personal bottle could be something you do, not now. Or changing the carbohydrate blend to something that may work better for you versus what is used in Gatorade etc, not now. Or adding protein....whatever.

I noticed a few guys said they just used water or whatever during their marathon and they did just fine. I the marathon I hit the standard in I didn't know what I was doing and just used whatever they had at Twin Cities. I don't even remember (powerade) but it messed up my stomach pretty bad during the race, I didn't even get under the standard time until the last 2 miles, between 10- 16 miles I thought I was going to shit myself. Now that I'm specifically training for a marathon I keep making little changes in the concentration etc of a drink during training to get something that will work. Now will this cause me to run a 2:08? Hell no, talent,hardwork and opportunity will. But it is one less thing over 26 miles up and down hills that I may not have to worry about.

It makes me wonder if the USATF people become disconnected from the sport, or they just don't care.

I'm also in for a one of those shirts, I have no club or sponsor so I'll just wear the thing as a uniform.

As WEJO said, it shouldn't be that big of logistical problem to provide space for everybody's bottles. I'm a scrub runner, but have run Twin Cities as a "local elite". They have set up bottle-tables for a lot of runners. It's been the national open and master's champs during some years, plus they allow bottles for the "local elites". I haven't heard of any big problems with bottle tables in that race. Also, it sounds like past OT races have provided bottles for everyone. It's not that big of deal to set up. However, it could be a big deal if someone is training with a particular mix. Water bottles also allow people to tape gels to them, so they don't have to carry them (although I'm not sure if elites use gels).

Also, $400/night seems pretty steep. Seems like they could have struck up a deal with some hotel to give a decent discounted rate. I've stayed at some pretty nice places in Midtown for under $150/night (although not during marathon weekend). Just kind of a kick in the ass for the B-guys.

chuck d wrote:

yeah, which is why they should probably just not let anyone have them.

what has been the protocol in the past on this?

As someone else mentioned in 2004 they let anyone who wanted them to have bottles in Birmingham.

I heard B qualifiers are only allowed to run with 1 shoe (the left one) and it must be over 8 ozs. Anyone else here that? I also heard they have to start 5 minutes behind the A qualifiers as not to impeed the real qualifiers is that true?

Mandingo wrote:

IT's more likely just logistics. Usually the elite table has like 20 men and 20 women's bottles. ONce you get up to 80 or so it could get retty complicted.

Many of the top runners don't even need special bottles, more women than male elites go for the custom bottles.

In 2004 they had several tables for the bottles at each stop. You knew which table was yours and which bottle to grab-- same setup at each stop. Not complicated at all.

The additional truth is... many of these "B" standard athletes are track qualifiers, meaning that they are legit athletes who have legit shots at making the team. USATF is making a big deal of track qualifiers this year, expanding the field to include 5k qualifiers on the mens end... all in hopes of finding another Hall... a young guy with a great break-out performance. HOWEVER, it seems a bit retarded to then handicap the guys that they are so desperately encouraging to run by not allowing them their own bottles. Carney and Fam are great examples of a guys who could show up and make the team... however they have to hit the "A" standard to actually BE on the team. Seems a bit counterintuitive that NYRR isn't trying to make this happen every way they can.

Mr. Price wrote:

This is WEAK.

If you run in a race of national caliber then everyone should be treated the same. They made it in. They're fast enough to be in the Olympic Trials. Why not treat them like they made it in?

Sure, you can argue they have a "B" standard, but the reality is it's a lot faster than most anyone here has, or ever will, run.

Actually what would be best is if they just had a standard of about 2:17 and made that the cutoff for all...otherwise its just a dog and pony show for people who finish nearly 5k behind our best....

for the track we might as well allow 30:00+ 10k runners

The $400 an night totally shocked me when I heard about it. Sage Canaday, a guy on my brother's team at Cornell, qualified and I nearly fell out of my chair when I heard the room are $400 a night.

I guess all the hotels jack their prices marathon weekend. The ironic thing is the shoe sponsors of the top guys would all pick up the tab anyway.

But that's just how it is. And most "B" qualifiers having trained their whole lives probably want to take part in the event and feel like they aren't 2nd class so they're not going to stay out in Jersey.

The least these guys could get is water bottles.

Can someone tell me where on the course the water bottles will be?

As has been said many times before, this Trials is not about the athletes as it should be. It's about money. Thanks USATF and NYRR.

BTW, I don't believe you on the $399 thing, unless you're trying to stay at the Ritz or something. Don't lie, you can find something cheaper. I just found a place for you for $274 a night just south of the start line at hotwire.com. Sure, it's not a $99/night hotel, but it's also not $399.

Also, try emailing Sam at NYRR and see if they are planning any kind of hosting program. I know that for the marathon last year, they were looking for local area runners to put up some of the sub-elite runners for a few days.

Or, find some other runners to share a room with.

Honestly, you are a B-qualifier, and the rules say that A-qualifiers get their way paid. I know that no one put me up in a hotel for USAs track this year. I made the decision that it was worth the money. Or, my team did, I guess. So, decide if it's worth it to you to be part of the experience, or market yourself better and find a sponsor. If you are teamless, maybe you can the NYAC to pick you up. Contact them.

wejo wrote:

The $400 an night totally shocked me when I heard about it. Sage Canaday, a guy on my brother's team at Cornell, qualified and I nearly fell out of my chair when I heard the room are $400 a night.

400$ is the normal price for a hotel room, that doesn't surprise me.

wejo, I'm planning a trip to NYC for the marathon trials, well, more so to visit the city, but I'm all for helping out at the "B" water tables. Talk to NYCC and put out a call-for-action.

Once again we have a situation where it appears the NYRRC is operating under the belief that they are more important than the event or the runners - much like Knight was at Indiana, Coughlin with the Giants etc.

Birmingham did it right for the event and the runners; their attitude toward the press was less than satisfactory - and so the event garnered very little publicity outside of that city. The NYCRRC seems to be doing just the opposite.

Were the 2004 Trials on NBC later in the day with tape delay? I think it was but a very short program. Maybe tied in with an indoor meet?

So this year's trials are getting tape delay coverage which is about the same. And with much much better athletes. Meb has a silver. Hall has run 2:08, Abdi, and more.

The $399/night is the discounted rate at the race hotel.

I think Culpepper crossing the finish line was only shown on NBC. I could be wrong....