How fast will Goucher and Torres go on the 2nd???

Then what are you talking about? You first started talking on this thread responding to guests comment about Jorges finishing speed.

ALberto Salazar's mile PR was 4:04 and his 400-meter PR was apparently 59 seconds. So IMHO Jorge Torres will have enough speed to hold a fast pace as his career develops over the next five years. Both he and Goucher will get the automatic A standard in one of their three meets (Aug. 2, 5, 8) in which they are slated to run 5,000s.

Salazar only having 59 speed, yeah right.

4:04 with 59 400m speed is impossible.

And that is why Salazar always got outkicked at anything under a marathon

"His speed? Slow...Compared to what? 1250 5k'ers? He has sub 4 speed ability if he ran it at his peak in a fast race. He's gone 1324 in the 5k. Why should he move up? His speed will continue to get faster as he does. One is not stuck on a certain speed just because that is their current ability. how fast are most 1324 5k runners? Personally i think he is capable of going 338 when at his best."

That is all i said. What do other 1324 5k runners run for 1500? I was saying compared to guys who run 1250's....yea he might be slow. But that doesnt mean he should neccesarily move up. He could be porpotionally fast to the other guys ahead of him yes?

mrr2 wrote:

"He has sub 4 speed ability if he ran it at his peak in a fast race. He's gone 1324 in the 5k. Why should he move up?

That, in a nutshell, sums up everything that is wrong with US distance running.

Man, you guys really like to twist things alot dont ya. I mean, mrr82 may not be right all the time, but alot of you guys twist what he has to say around. Geez...I dont like him, but I know what he talking about and YES, it makes sense. Worlds #1 coach, who have you coached to greatness and fame, because I dont believe your what you say you are?

If Jorge's didn't have the speed to dominate NCAA 1500/5000 races, does anyone ever see him medaling at WCs or the Olympics at that distance. His competition is running 55 (and well under) at the end of a fast 5k. I believe that is well beyond his capabilities, no matter how strong he is.

Now look at Ryan Shay. Ran 2:13 right out of college. He did win a 10k title on the track, but I think most would agree Jorge was the superior college runner.

Point is, I don't see him ever medaling at shorter distances, he looks like a marathoner/10k guy to me. In the marathon, running 2:10 on the right day can still grab you a medal. I think most would agree Jorge certainly has that potential.

Totally agree with last post..as good as torres is and he is very good..he will never be able to compete at World Class level in 5K..10K maybe..he has run a few 1500's now and that 3:42 is his best now...this is simply not quick enough TODAY..not 20 years ago..TODAY to compete in this event..in the U.S. ? sadly yes, but not internationally

Goucher..at 3:43?? this is not a good sign at all.. he ran 3:56?? months ago in mile..

I never understand why people say that some runner must improve his 1500/mile/800/400/whatever PR to improve at a longer distance.

Running a fast shorter race is NOT a prerequisite to improving at a longer race. Someone always says that so and so has to be able to run this time to run this other time in a different race. 800 runners must run a faster 400. milers have to improve their 800. Marathoners must improve their 10k speed to run a faster 'thon.

Seems to me all that Torres needs to to do improve his 5000 PR is to run 5000 meters faster than he did before. How he does that, more mileage, more speed, whatever. Either approach will probably help lower his 1500 meter PR too, just because he's in better shape.

I know this isn't exactly related to this discussion, but it was brought up...

I agree that in order to perform better at a longer race that it is sometimes neccessary for some athletes to improve at shorter race. There are many different scenarios that this may apply, such as:

5000m Race

1.) Runner A pr's- 1500m: 3:39.75 5000m: 13:10

2.) Runner B pr's- 1500m: 3:34.50 5000m: 13:10

3.) Runner C pr's- 1500m: 3:33.90 5000m: 13:02

The race thru 3200m is at 13:15 pace and then runner C injects a 1200m surge at close to 3:44 pace, which runner A or runner B would have the best chance to cover the move with the least amount of fatigue?

800m Race

two 800m racers with pr's of 1:45.30 make it to a Championship final and one 400m pr is 47:03 and the second is 45.78. In the final the race goes out in 53 leaving for a kicker's race, who would seem more likely to fare better in the sprint. or the race goes out in 49.5 or 50.1 and everyone in the field is in close proximity would the runner with the slower 400m speed be able to stick with the pace or outkick guys with faster 400m pr's. Maybe but not likely.

The very elite athletes with superior endurance need to worry about this less than up and coming athletes; however, now the world is seeing more athletes with incredible endurance and super kicks, thus better speed is now a must!

Vipam

Young Brit Sam Haughian who is about the same age as Jorge, ran 13:19 last summer off a 1500 pr of 3:45. He is a similar type of x-country strength type guy as Jorge. The 1500 was a fine sharpener for Jorge and he'll ran a fantastic race next weekend, just you guys wait and see.

Well put, but who are you?

I hope they both make the A standard. One has to wonder though how much Torres has left after 3 long seasons and then a long summer training session. Seems like he hasn't had a break in a long time

I vote mrr82 and king99 shutup.

Didn't Torres not compete all of indoors this year?

Jorge said his body could not handle all the lactic acid that built up running 3:43 twice (rounds, final) at the NCAA championships. If he can't handle that, how can he handle a race ilke the 2001 the world champs,which went out in 4:04?

Well Malone..You are right, if he cant do that then he wont be able to handle 404 pace...But even if he could handle the two 1500's in an early season race...he stil wouldnt be able to handle a 404 first mile! Lets be realistic. No ones going to argue he is ready to run with the best....make a step towards being able to....That he may do.

He didnt run once indoors i believe....and rarely ran outdoors. Didnt even race the 5k at nationals to get ready for USA'a and worlds.....I dont think he will be that tired.