Ohio Collegiate Programs

For the record, I think that the Dayton guy didn't fall off that much by the end of the season. He probably could of finished a few places better at regionals but he didn't get overly worse through the season. Should be interesting to see how competitive they become with the signing of the Lemon brothers and according to a rumor, Cory McGoldrick.

Rumor has it there is some unrest at OSU and there might be some moving around of athletes. Probably won't happen but at the moment, or at least of a two weeks ago, several runners weren't happy. Hopefully that resolves itself because with the talent they have there, they could be a national powerhouse.

As for the Div II region I was commenting on earlier, justed looked up some results: There were clearly 8 teams fighting for a top 5 spot and a trip to nationals. It is very rare that there is a Div II region with that much depth. Factor that in with of the 5 teams that made nationals from that region, 4 were in the top 13 in the country. The 5th place team from that region was 13th at nationals. There were 3 other teams that didn't make nationals that were within 16 points of them. Hard to imagine any region, ever, with 8 teams that could have placed in the top 15 - 20 at nationals.

By no means did I try to put/compare Tiffin in the same ranks as Ashland. KB ranked Ashland as 6th (overall track/xc/development catergy) and I'd actually rank them closer to 3rd. Actually, I'm a big fan of the old AU...but don't have too much of an opinion yet of the new regime. We will give them time.

I thought your analysis of all the Ohio programs was quite fair, detailed and accurate. However, KB said he doesn’t even consider Tiffin a program and that's why I posted some ammo towards their case.

I apologize for comparing Tiffin to Ashland in CC. They are working with two entirely different levels of athletes.

Here are the Tiffin Regional guys and their(hs performances). Of course their improvement curve may look better but most do understand that it's much more difficult to develop a 9:30 guy vs. a 10:00 guy.

9. 290 Tiffin (34:12.3 171:01.2)

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1 34 Andrew Belzer 33:33(2:03,17:00)

2 40 Justin Setty 33:45.2 (4:40, 10:01)

3 56 Jeremy Lee 34:09.2 (4:30, 10:20)

4 69 Chad Roberts 34:28.9 (4:30, 9:50)

5 91 Kendon Luscher 35:03.7 (4:40, 10:00)

6 ( 98) William Kyttle 35:18.8 (4:50, 10:20)

8. 193 Ashland (33:41.9 168:29.3)

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1 23 Jason Oswalt 33:13.5 (??)

2 35 Jeremy Trein 33:37.2 (4:22)

3 43 Zak Wilburn 33:51.1 (9:30)

4 45 Evan Thomas 33:52.6 (9:40)

5 47 Mike Schultz 33:55.1 (no google- 8:084x8)

6 ( 62) Anthony Beggrow 34:13.0 (4:29)

7 ( 90) Bryan Ropp 35:03.1 (4:26, 9:43)

I took the following information of a couple other letsrun threads that have come up recently...

I would be nice if someone (huge task) could develop some sort of database that could track distance running development (or lack there of).

6 6 SCOTT LASCH HEIDELBERG FR 4:58 17:53 25:49.0 (9:37)

9 9 DAN SIMPSON HEIDELBERG JR 4:59 18:05 25:57.7 (4:35, 10:05)

19 19 JEREMY WYSOCKI HEIDELBERG SR 5:13 18:15 26:21.7 (16:20 State SR)

25 25 DEVIN BUTCHER HEIDELBERG FR 5:01 26:33.9 (9:48)

60 60 DAMIAN POTTER HEIDELBERG FR 5:13 19:02 27:15.2 (4:32)

81 80 JARROD SALING HEIDELBERG SO 5:19 19:06 27:35.9 (10:05)

103 102 JAKE LEMON HEIDELBERG FR 5:19 19:27 27:59.5 5:38 (10:05)

13 13 PAUL LEWIS OHIO NORTHERN SO 4:59 18:08 26:06.4 (16:40)

20 20 JIMMY O'BRIEN OHIO NORTHERN SO 5:05 18:29 26:22.4(1:52.7, 4:24JR)

22 22 KEVIN HECKMAN OHIO NORTHERN SR 5:07 26:24.5 (9:50, 16:30)

24 24 THOMAS ADAM OHIO NORTHERN SO 5:07 18:28 26:31.1 (9:45)

44 44 MARK BIERKAN OHIO NORTHERN SR 5:06 18:46 27:01.0 (1:56.1)

61 61 ERIC PORTER OHIO NORTHERN SO 5:11 18:51 27:16.1 (4:31)

62 62 AARON STIGER OHIO NORTHERN SO 5:12 18:54 27:20.1 (9:40)

11 11 JEREMY VELLIQUETTE MOUNT UNION SR 4:58 18:05 26:00.9 5:15 (1:58)

21 21 BRIAN BERNARD MOUNT UNION JR 5:06 18:28 26:24.2 5:19 (9:19, 4:20)

27 27 DUSTIN FORD MOUNT UNION SO 5:06 18:24 26:35.3 5:21 (9:35)

33 33 RYAN GARRO MOUNT UNION SR 5:17 18:45 26:47.8 5:24 (17:30, 1:56)

41 41 BRICE BASISTA MOUNT UNION FR 5:18 18:49 26:55.4 5:26 (17:00, 4:40)

63 63 JUSTIN MEESON MOUNT UNION SO 5:11 19:01 27:20.9 5:31 (16:15, 10:05)

66 66 JASON SIGMUND MOUNT UNION JR 5:12 18:53 27:23.0 5:31 (4:25, 15:40)

Ryan Kienzle Malone (OH) 16:47.05 26:00.05 (9:19)

Nik Schweikert Malone (OH)17:03.55 26:06.30 (4:11)

Paul Robinson Malone (OH)17:24.35 26:36.20 (9:24)

Evan Gaynor Malone (OH) 17:23.35 26:39.65 (9:20)

Ryan Crocker Malone (OH) 17:41.35 26:43.25 (9:24)

Justin Baum Malone (OH) 17:30.90 26:48.00 (9:30)

Christopher Sinick Malone (OH) 18:07.50 27:35.70(4:15,9:19)

Maybe not all that meaningful...but then again...maybe they are?

Actually, I think several years ago I remember seeing some All-Ohio comparision (maybe 5 years ago on run-insight) of individuals performance from one year to the next. They averaged everything out and I think Cincy was the most improved...then again that was quite a while ago and my memory gets worse by the day.

That would be interesting to know about the most improved but is really hard to compare and it is also hard to tell if a kid that runs 10 flat ran as hard as another kid that ran 10 flat.

Just got off the phone and found out that two of Ashland's top 5 were walk-ons. Neither of them broke 4:40 in highschool or 10 flat from what they remember. Oswalt and Schultz are the two you don't have times for and I would assume that was them.

Tiffin has done a solid job from what I can tell. Putting together a top 10 list or who is the best list is a bit silly because every situation is different. I guess it isn't silly if you want to compare by performance/results only, but trying to find real improvement is hard to measure.

What I feel is that the coach has limited control on how good or how developed a kid gets over time. It comes down to how much an individual wants to improve, and how big of dreams or goals the kid has, and how motivated they are to be great. Somebody mentioned YSU as a bad place to go to, I would have to disagree, you can say that the coach is bad but you cant blame the coach 100% for a kid not improving in college. Some kids are used to being superstars in high school, and when they go to college they get smoked and quit or give up. Some kids are party kids, and get drunk every weekend. It all comes down to the individual and how much they want it. If you want to go to a school, don't let someone on a message board discourage you just b/c of their personal oppinoi. Do what is right for you.

How about taking this a step further? Since most of these schools recruit Ohio talent, which high schools are the best both traditionally and recently?

Include D1, D2 and the little guys in D3.

I know Martinez and Fox left, but what other distance runners are leaving the OSU program? I know the team a little bit and I can't think of someone that unhappy? They were all dissappointed with their season, but transferring is a huge deal!

Balyo, Ealy, and See for starters. All have asked for releases. That is going to hurt the team.

This team has really had a reversal of fortunes. They were 2nd in the Big 10 and 11th as a team at NCAA's in 2005. This year, they were 7th in Big 10 and didn't qualify!

That being said, they are absolutely the best distance program in the state. They definitely develop their guys best. If I had any problem with the program, it'd be that their coach only recruits Ohio kids. You can't win Big 10's with that philosophy!

PS- there is a reason that Miami is dubbed 'the graveyard'; state champions go to dissappear.

OSU does a decent job of overall development.

Miami does a solid job as well. I think Hauling and Pat. S amongst others, Mitchell and co., have turned the tide of the graveyard. It would appear that is more fitting for OSU now.

There should be no reason that a team with some of the top Ohio guys couldn't compete for a national/Big 10 title. Ohio has boatloads of talent. It takes someone that can harness that talent to get the job done though. Honestly, what is the difference if you get 3 9min 3200 runners from Texas, Michigan, California or Ohio? Answer - there is none.

OSU has by far the best recruits of any recruit in the state of Ohio. If they were not the best distance team in Ohio it would be the worst coaching job ever. Cinci and Kent were only 85 points behind an overwhelming more talented OSU team at Regionals.

With that being said, I hope OSU turns it around.

Balyo, Ealy and See are really looking around?

Yeah thats kinda hard to believe they all are. Seeing how Balyo is only in his first season of his first year...

Nobody asked for releases, just people trying to casue a ruckus on the boards.

For starters, I hope the people who get on here and talk about OSU runners wanting releases know for an absolute matter of fact this is true. If not, it is completely uncalled for; not to mention unfair to those people just named.

As a person who has run in the MAC, I find it to be a great conference for most Ohio runners. Miami, Kent, Ohio, Akron are all schools where you could go to and either get some money, or walk-on and get some money. I choose the second path and found myself improving immensely. Go somewhere will you will get the chance to race.

Fox and Martinez may have been partying drinkers, but they left the team high and dry late into the summer. The team may claim they're better off without them, but the fact is, they lost a Footlocker finalist in Fox and a 14:09 true freshman in Martinez 2 weeks before the CC season started.

That being said, Ohio State has been dominant inside Ohio. The problem is, they're not in the MAC, they're in the Big 10 and it's way more competitive and deep!

Does OSU have any recruits? I for one like how their coach tries to get it done with Ohio-only runners.

See, Ealy, Balyo, Bailey, and they could use a stud freshman (Heineking or Borchers?)

I think what Borchers did at the Mid East meet didn't help his college stock any...ya, he's run super fast in the 1500, but he's not exactly a world beater in cross.

how do u know he was "racing" it doesnt look as though arnio was racing either.

I love how all the supposedly "in the know" Ohio people post trash on here. Do any of you ever think that everyone outside Ohio think we are a bunch of pussys since people rip on every program in the state. According to the Ohio experts on here there isn't one program worth a darn in the entire state. But in reality, the college coaches in Ohio work hard at recruiting Ohio athletes (well, maybe not a couple of MAC schools) and providing them the environment to do well. Would we rather have our collegiate programs doing what Alabama, Lamar, Iona, Butler, etc. etc. are doing and recruiting all international athletes and not worrying about local kids.

You can't have it both ways folks. If the Ohio college coaches are recruiting Ohio kids give them a freaking break. If you want them to ignore Ohio kids then that can be done easily.

Do you ever think of saying positive things? Try it.

vaulter wrote:I think what Borchers did at the Mid East meet didn't help his college stock any...ya, he's run super fast in the 1500, but he's not exactly a world beater in cross.

So what? He's the best HS miler in Ohio history, ever!! Remember his track season ended in late summer. His strength is not cross but for him to run as well as he's done with the long track season speakes to his tremendous talent.

Well he has the fastest 1500 time and that was a one time shot. I agree that he is very talented.

I hope he can be DI eligible academically speaking