A 17-year-old running 1:42 is rewriting what we thought was possible in the 800m. He’s beating Olympic medalists, global finalists, seasoned professionals, former drug cheats, current athletes under constant scrutiny, and countless clean athletes who have devoted their lives to the sport. Whether you believe it or not, it’s a performance that deserves serious scrutiny, not blind acceptance. It’s hard to wrap your head around in more ways than one, but what can you really say?
I say: it seems illogical Copper ever woke up one day thinking “My natural talent alone is prohibiting me from running as fast at age 16 as I’d like to be in relation to my competition I better take some PEDs”
I also think that once people accept that super spikes and super trainers, bicarb supplements, and peptides are all “performance enhancements,” then it starts to make sense that the sport has changed, even at the high school level, the sheer depth of it. But we still have deniers out there, especially when it comes to the shoes.
A former Olympic medalist said the 2021 version of the spikes are worth 2.5 seconds over a 1500. So, what happens when you expand the distance and add other small enhancers like lactate buffers, recovery peptides, and much better absorbed fluids late in a race. How much difference does it make over a marathon? 5 sec per mile maybe? What about 800? At least a second. Maybe 1.5 sec.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
Nijel Amos was 18 when he won an Olympic silver medal in a world record race. Obviously an asterisk there given his later doping ban. It’s worth mentioning when we’re saying Cooper is the greatest teen phenom ever.
Greatest teen phenom our sport has ever seen? How easily we forget Jim Ryun running 3:51 in 1966 at 19 years old.
A reasonable enough question, but why wouldn’t you at least grant the possibility of this kid being on par with Ryun?
And regardless, how many more top-tier performances, or what time threshold, do you need to see from CL to consider “greatest” something other than hyperbole?
Jim Ryun broke 2 world records as a teenager: the half-mile and the mile. Therefore Cooper needs to break at least one world record to say he is on par with Ryun as a teenager. I hope he does.
Greatest teen phenom our sport has ever seen? How easily we forget Jim Ryun running 3:51 in 1966 at 19 years old.
At this point I'd say Coop has surpassed Ryun. He's a world champ and is beating the best in the world while still in high school at 17, while Ryun didn't achieve his WRs until 19 (after he graduated).
Cooper doesn't have any WRs to his name yet, but by the time he is 19 it's totally possible he has the 800m WR.
With the world championship and DL win, it’s close. However, Ryun demonstrated prowess not just over the mile but also the 880 as a young man. And that 3:51 was not great pacing at all. Plus he has an Olympic medal. If and when CL medals in the Olympics, then he has surpassed Ryun. Ryun was the template.
Jim Ryun broke 2 world records as a teenager: the half-mile and the mile. Therefore Cooper needs to break at least one world record to say he is on par with Ryun as a teenager. I hope he does.
Again, I totally reasonable point, but is that actually the be-all-end-all?
it’s obviously foolish to compare across errors and just say something like “who is faster?”
so for me, I think about the number of people involved the amount of training and effort that goes into the sport, and that really creates a different picture about which athletes have contributed to our world record at point A or point B on the timeline.
you could very well make an argument that Ryun did that better relative to circumstances at point A on the timeline.
I can’t really go deep into the weeds, but my initial perspective is that Cooper at point B on the timeline is no worse than very close relative to circumstances in comparison, world record or not.
it’s not a great comparison, but for example, George Mikan crushed his competition. And he was an all-time great. I have zero reason to disparage him. But did he play against Walt, Kareem, or Shaq?
Jim Ryun broke 2 world records as a teenager: the half-mile and the mile. Therefore Cooper needs to break at least one world record to say he is on par with Ryun as a teenager. I hope he does.
Again, I totally reasonable point, but is that actually the be-all-end-all?
it’s obviously foolish to compare across errors and just say something like “who is faster?”
so for me, I think about the number of people involved the amount of training and effort that goes into the sport, and that really creates a different picture about which athletes have contributed to our world record at point A or point B on the timeline.
you could very well make an argument that Ryun did that better relative to circumstances at point A on the timeline.
I can’t really go deep into the weeds, but my initial perspective is that Cooper at point B on the timeline is no worse than very close relative to circumstances in comparison, world record or not.
it’s not a great comparison, but for example, George Mikan crushed his competition. And he was an all-time great. I have zero reason to disparage him. But did he play against Walt, Kareem, or Shaq?
That's why I'm saying Cooper only needs to break one world record to match Ryun. It's a tougher era now.
Still, I don't think Ryun gets enough credit for being world class in two events as a teenager. He's often remembered as a miler but he also broke the world record in the half-mile. Dude was amazing. So is Cooper. Cheering for him.
An American winning a DL is extremely rare, no matter the age.
It's getting less rare in the age of Nuguse, his 6th today I think?
Anyway, more impressive than the win and the time is who CL beat. He scalped several global and European medallists. The sky really does seem to be the limit for him right now. They need to get him into the Monaco DL. 1:41 is definitely on the cards on that track
Again, I totally reasonable point, but is that actually the be-all-end-all?
it’s obviously foolish to compare across errors and just say something like “who is faster?”
so for me, I think about the number of people involved the amount of training and effort that goes into the sport, and that really creates a different picture about which athletes have contributed to our world record at point A or point B on the timeline.
you could very well make an argument that Ryun did that better relative to circumstances at point A on the timeline.
I can’t really go deep into the weeds, but my initial perspective is that Cooper at point B on the timeline is no worse than very close relative to circumstances in comparison, world record or not.
it’s not a great comparison, but for example, George Mikan crushed his competition. And he was an all-time great. I have zero reason to disparage him. But did he play against Walt, Kareem, or Shaq?
That's why I'm saying Cooper only needs to break one world record to match Ryun. It's a tougher era now.
Still, I don't think Ryun gets enough credit for being world class in two events as a teenager. He's often remembered as a miler but he also broke the world record in the half-mile. Dude was amazing. So is Cooper. Cheering for him.
Plus CL is younger. Let’s see where CL is at in two short years at age 19. It’s an Olympic year too after all. We’re all cheering for him.
This post was edited 22 seconds after it was posted.
I say: it seems illogical Copper ever woke up one day thinking “My natural talent alone is prohibiting me from running as fast at age 16 as I’d like to be in relation to my competition I better take some PEDs”
I also think that once people accept that super spikes and super trainers, bicarb supplements, and peptides are all “performance enhancements,” then it starts to make sense that the sport has changed, even at the high school level, the sheer depth of it. But we still have deniers out there, especially when it comes to the shoes.
A former Olympic medalist said the 2021 version of the spikes are worth 2.5 seconds over a 1500. So, what happens when you expand the distance and add other small enhancers like lactate buffers, recovery peptides, and much better absorbed fluids late in a race. How much difference does it make over a marathon? 5 sec per mile maybe? What about 800? At least a second. Maybe 1.5 sec.
Tracks are faster as well. A combo of faster tracks and shoes has changed the game.Not sure about bicarb.I use it to clean my sink,and ill drink it for a gut ache.Meanwhile i thought the medallist said spikes swipe 3 seconds off a mile.
Just a historical reminder of perhaps the "greatest teenager"- Bob Mathias won the Olympic decathlon gold medal at age 17, then broke the decathlon world record at age 19
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