He ran 3:34 two years ago so he is 100% a 3:32/3:33 guy now based on huge 3000, 800 and XC improvements. I’d say what is mystifying is that he hasn’t run low 3:30s and hasn’t been able to put it together in championship 1500s yet.
I agree with these two quoted posters here. The ratio on Salvitore is dumb
Sahlman has completely dropped the ball on 1500s and there is absolutely NO REASON a guy running sub-48, all the way to a 13:23 5k should be preforming this poorly over 1500m. It has to be something beyond "well the 1500 just isn't his best event." That makes zero sense.
As I said previously, Sahlman should be the one with the NCAA record in 3:31 by now, not Birnbaum. Birnbaum is nowhere near as fast as Sahlman over 400/800 and his 5k is only four seconds faster than Sahlman's.
So, how is Sahlman STILL getting outkicked in 3:34 races?? Makes no sense at all
In terms of showing range, fast times, etc., Sahlman is great. But his championship races are very poor. People here are saying he is a "1:42 man" but got DFL at USA's in August... makes zero sense. Sahlman would still be getting absolutely humbled over world class 800 runners and has no chance of ever making a team for it.
Also he did not make it out of the 1500m heats earlier in June (that entire race was a tactical nightmare)
Sahlman has potential to be the next Alan Webb with the kind of range he has, but I am tired of seeing people pretend he has so much upside in the 800 and remaining completely oblivious to all the signs that clearly point that he can achieve even more over the 1500/mile.
I actually think a Mike Smith and Cornfield are not great miler coaches. They will get you strong for XC and 3k / 5k but lack the ability to coach great milers.
Ethan Stand will struggle in the mile at Nike Swoosh
Sahlman is clearly better at the 800. Not sure why everyone here thinks he needs to move up. Posters here have this weird idea that if you take someone fast and put them in a longer race they will dominate.
Well it all depends what your interpretation of "better" is.
Right now, as of today and even including the 1500m he ran last night a day after that 800m, whether people want to accept this or not, Colin Sahlman has a lifetime PR over 800m that is better than his 1500m, and is more decorated over the 800m distance (he won a major pro race over the distance - Millrose).
So we can sit around and talk potential and how he should be better and how 1.44.4 and 7.41 plus and NCAA indoor title should be xyz over 1500m, but the reality is this - he hasn't done it.
And I'll reiterate - it might be that if he was to run an 800 and a 1500 at the DL level his "better" relative time would be over 1500m. But as an NCAA athlete surely your "better" event is the one you have most chance at winning the NCAA title in. People can hypothesize all they want - until he runs something like what Birnbaum did last night in Eugene, his better chance is in the 800.
Plus also, you'd think I was dealing the guy some form of critique by saying that - it's the total opposite! To basically insinuate a guy is so talented he is good enough to win an extremely hard event over an event that on paper it looks like he is better suited to, is about as massive a compliment as one could be given. I certainly don't think Birnbaum (clearly the best 1500m runner in the NCAA right now) would have any shot at winning the 800m at the NCAA chanpionships.
I looked up Tor's running history and though he has been going at this a while now, class of 2020, six years in after D3 Lynchburg and a national championship there, he is going to have a dynamite next few years, because he has improved enormously this year already in his first year training at altitude with the big dogs, a 5 second drop year to year in his pr at Bryan Clay in the 1500m (3:37) and a 3 second drop in the 800m (1:45). The 800 is particularly striking for a guy whose old (2022) pr in the 400m is just 50.x. Surely, that is the type of slower twitch guy to run eventually better at 1500m than 800m, and what if he drops to 1:44 or 1:43 as a pro next year? I can see low 3:30s in his future.
Yeah, good call. Maybe Sahlman needed to move down, like Sebastian Coe who had been moving up before he really broke through.
It's not that he needs to move "down" forever - let's say he does win the NCAA 800m this season - it doesn't mean his 1500m career is over and he's a specialist "800m only" guy moving forwards.
He could win the NCAA 8, and go run the 1500m at the US champs if he wanted to. Heck last year he did the complete opposite - 7th in the NCAA 1500m and then made the US outdoor final as a college junior.
To prove something I said about the difference between ability to run a time and ability to win races that matter - look at Jakob and also the example you gave, Coe.
In terms of championship distances (so not the 3000m), Jakobs best career performance is the 1500m (he might actually be the fastest human ever, that's a real possibility), and yet he has been dominant in not that event, but the 5000m. Coes highest performances event was the 800m but he was best in championships over 1500m. Yes these guys moved up, but there is no reason why it can't work the other way. Look at Steve Ovett - he was best over 1500m/mile and yet the event he's the Olympic champion in is the 800m.
Sahlman does not do well in races where the pace is stop/start, has hard accelerations and requires constant positioning awareness and change. Those are the hallmarks of the NCAA 1500m. The 800m is different. It's only 7 other athletes to worry about and you can run anywhere from 50.5-52.5 seconds for the opening lap and never be out of contention which is how he is dominating these 2 laps races recently.
This post was edited 51 seconds after it was posted.
I agree with these two quoted posters here. The ratio on Salvitore is dumb
Sahlman has completely dropped the ball on 1500s and there is absolutely NO REASON a guy running sub-48, all the way to a 13:23 5k should be preforming this poorly over 1500m. It has to be something beyond "well the 1500 just isn't his best event." That makes zero sense.
As I said previously, Sahlman should be the one with the NCAA record in 3:31 by now, not Birnbaum. Birnbaum is nowhere near as fast as Sahlman over 400/800 and his 5k is only four seconds faster than Sahlman's.
So, how is Sahlman STILL getting outkicked in 3:34 races?? Makes no sense at all
In terms of showing range, fast times, etc., Sahlman is great. But his championship races are very poor. People here are saying he is a "1:42 man" but got DFL at USA's in August... makes zero sense. Sahlman would still be getting absolutely humbled over world class 800 runners and has no chance of ever making a team for it.
Also he did not make it out of the 1500m heats earlier in June (that entire race was a tactical nightmare)
Sahlman has potential to be the next Alan Webb with the kind of range he has, but I am tired of seeing people pretend he has so much upside in the 800 and remaining completely oblivious to all the signs that clearly point that he can achieve even more over the 1500/mile.
I actually think a Mike Smith and Cornfield are not great miler coaches. They will get you strong for XC and 3k / 5k but lack the ability to coach great milers.
Ethan Stand will struggle in the mile at Nike Swoosh
Totally agree. There is no reason Nico Young could have run sub-3:50 under Mike Smith (sarcasm)
Yeah, good call. Maybe Sahlman needed to move down, like Sebastian Coe who had been moving up before he really broke through.
It's not that he needs to move "down" forever - let's say he does win the NCAA 800m this season - it doesn't mean his 1500m career is over and he's a specialist "800m only" guy moving forwards.
He could win the NCAA 8, and go run the 1500m at the US champs if he wanted to. Heck last year he did the complete opposite - 7th in the NCAA 1500m and then made the US outdoor final as a college junior.
To prove something I said about the difference between ability to run a time and ability to win races that matter - look at Jakob and also the example you gave, Coe.
In terms of championship distances (so not the 3000m), Jakobs best career performance is the 1500m (he might actually be the fastest human ever, that's a real possibility), and yet he has been dominant in not that event, but the 5000m. Coes highest performances event was the 800m but he was best in championships over 1500m. Yes these guys moved up, but there is no reason why it can't work the other way. Look at Steve Ovett - he was best over 1500m/mile and yet the event he's the Olympic champion in is the 800m.
Sahlman does not do well in races where the pace is stop/start, has hard accelerations and requires constant positioning awareness and change. Those are the hallmarks of the NCAA 1500m. The 800m is different. It's only 7 other athletes to worry about and you can run anywhere from 50.5-52.5 seconds for the opening lap and never be out of contention which is how he is dominating these 2 laps races recently.
Coe was a 800/1500 guy with 46 sec 400m speed. Colin seems to be similar, and maybe a bit more aerobically stronger than Coe above 1500/mile. Nonetheless, with 1:44 speed, he should be able to sniff 3:30 or under this summer. To your point, he needs to figure out how to "Race", and not just run time trial times in paced races. I like what Simeon Birnbaum said last week with regard to "racing" and "running fast". Who cares how fast you run unless you WIN! It's a great mindset to have, the times will eventually happen, but if you can't translate running fast to winning when it counts and or making National teams, you're living a tortured existence in the world of competitive running :(
Checking in after Sahlman just gave up 10+ meters to both Birnbaum and Langon in the 4x mile at Penn.
3.59.06 was the 8th fastest split out there today.
So I guess I'll just wait on the next excuse.
Run the 800m at the NCAA's Colin. Seriously.
The next excuse? It wasn’t his day. People need to look at the big picture. I am not arguing against him doing the 800m. It makes sense. But there are absolutely no guarantees there either.
He ran 3:34 two years ago so he is 100% a 3:32/3:33 guy now based on huge 3000, 800 and XC improvements. I’d say what is mystifying is that he hasn’t run low 3:30s and hasn’t been able to put it together in championship 1500s yet.
Yeah you are probably right on this one - given who we have seen run under 3.34 collegiately he is most likely a sub 3.32.0 guy and probably on par with a pro like Ciattei.
But I'd still run the 800 at the NCAAs if I was him - it's his best shot to win the chip.
I'm actually happy for Colin that he himself seems to agree...