Yes "back in the day". Before pacers on pancake flat courses races went for the win and not the time (for most part). Once the race was won the eventual winner could ease back. Saving it for the next race. These days the focus is so much on time, most of the time, that runners are not able to compete as often.
One would think that with Mantz' smooth, gliding and efficient stride, that he would be injury resistant.
awemann wrote:
All because he ran that marathon with his wife!
No. When you have been (chronically) under fueling as he has acknowledged at least partially, your bones are just not that strong. Look at how small he is and AllieO is the analogy that comes to mind, except the downsides of RED-S as a male are not as obvious.
Simple Truth on Bill Rodgers diet wrote:
The training philosophy back then was very simple: run as many miles as possible - at least 120/week up to 160. Diet was also very simple and consisted of the following:
This was inevitable. I was hoping he learned a lesson after what happened post Chicago, but he clearly came back way too quickly once he was cleared to run again. I’m a big Connor fan so I’m not happy to see this, but he needs to first and foremost focus on staying healthy. I also think it’s a little odd Connor is saying it’s a fitness issue when it’s clear it’s injury related.
In other words, you know more about training Mantz than Eyestone, and Mantz himself. What’s your experience in training a world class marathoner?
Actually there may have been advice about one marathon per year and certainly you weren’t paying attention if you weren’t aware of 2 marathons per year as advice being given out. I am not commenting on the merits of the advice, only on its existence.
This was inevitable. I was hoping he learned a lesson after what happened post Chicago, but he clearly came back way too quickly once he was cleared to run again. I’m a big Connor fan so I’m not happy to see this, but he needs to first and foremost focus on staying healthy. I also think it’s a little odd Connor is saying it’s a fitness issue when it’s clear it’s injury related.
In other words, you know more about training Mantz than Eyestone, and Mantz himself. What’s your experience in training a world class marathoner?
My experience is knowing overtraining when I see it. Mantz rarely takes breaks of any kind and something like this was bound to happen.
After every one of his marathons, within just a couple of days he's running 10 miles at mid 6 pace, and starts running hard workouts within 2 weeks.
Then, after this most recent marathon, he runs a marathon with his wife 3 weeks after he raced a marathon, which gave him a stress fracture.
Then, as soon as he gets back from his stress fracture, he is running all out workouts.
Predictable, all things considered, but still a huge bummer. I always have a pathetic little flame of hope that an American will win Boston, and this year Mantz was that hope. It’ll still be a great day, but I’m adjusting my expectations for the Americans big time. Meh.
Force actual drug testing, supervised, samples double checked by several certified labs - with a strict chain of custody - and you’ll see American (and other winners) again. You just won’t likely see as many Africans, if any. In before screechy apologists begin wailing.
In other words, you know more about training Mantz than Eyestone, and Mantz himself. What’s your experience in training a world class marathoner?
My experience is knowing overtraining when I see it. Mantz rarely takes breaks of any kind and something like this was bound to happen.
After every one of his marathons, within just a couple of days he's running 10 miles at mid 6 pace, and starts running hard workouts within 2 weeks.
Then, after this most recent marathon, he runs a marathon with his wife 3 weeks after he raced a marathon, which gave him a stress fracture.
Then, as soon as he gets back from his stress fracture, he is running all out workouts.
He's toast
Right. You can see overtraining but Eyestone can’t. He has about 30 years coaching experience and was an elite runner before that. Do you believe Eyestone, who’s been revered on LR, is an idiot? You can have an opinion, but what experience is it based upon?
My experience is knowing overtraining when I see it. Mantz rarely takes breaks of any kind and something like this was bound to happen.
After every one of his marathons, within just a couple of days he's running 10 miles at mid 6 pace, and starts running hard workouts within 2 weeks.
Then, after this most recent marathon, he runs a marathon with his wife 3 weeks after he raced a marathon, which gave him a stress fracture.
Then, as soon as he gets back from his stress fracture, he is running all out workouts.
He's toast
Right. You can see overtraining but Eyestone can’t. He has about 30 years coaching experience and was an elite runner before that. Do you believe Eyestone, who’s been revered on LR, is an idiot? You can have an opinion, but what experience is it based upon?
Instead of focusing on the experience of those who have commented on why Mantz had to pull out of Boston, consider the merits of what's been said.
It's been said that Mantz doesn't take breaks after his marathon races. Should an athlete take a break after a marathon? Yes.
It's been said that Mantz ran a marathon with his wife just a few weeks after Chicago. Although he was just jogging it, was it a good idea to run a marathon so soon after his American Record effort in Chicago? No. Did it get him injured? Apparently.
It's been said that Mantz was overly aggressive in ramping up his mileage and cramming in training for Boston. Did it work? No.
With all of Eyestone's credentials and all of Mantz's accolades, Mantz is unable to compete at Boston. It's ok to point out why. Elite coaching/racing experience isn't necessary.
Predictable, all things considered, but still a huge bummer. I always have a pathetic little flame of hope that an American will win Boston, and this year Mantz was that hope. It’ll still be a great day, but I’m adjusting my expectations for the Americans big time. Meh.
Force actual drug testing, supervised, samples double checked by several certified labs - with a strict chain of custody - and you’ll see American (and other winners) again. You just won’t likely see as many Africans, if any. In before screechy apologists begin wailing.
Unfortunately you’re correct. Samples split in half going to two labs, double blinds, etc to offset officials continuing to rig things. All kinds of possibilities.
Force actual drug testing, supervised, samples double checked by several certified labs - with a strict chain of custody - and you’ll see American (and other winners) again. You just won’t likely see as many Africans, if any. In before screechy apologists begin wailing.
Unfortunately you’re correct. Samples split in half going to two labs, double blinds, etc to offset officials continuing to rig things. All kinds of possibilities.
That's stupid. Samples are split in two A, and B, to preserve the chain of custody. There is no opportunity to rig things.
My experience is knowing overtraining when I see it. Mantz rarely takes breaks of any kind and something like this was bound to happen.
After every one of his marathons, within just a couple of days he's running 10 miles at mid 6 pace, and starts running hard workouts within 2 weeks.
Then, after this most recent marathon, he runs a marathon with his wife 3 weeks after he raced a marathon, which gave him a stress fracture.
Then, as soon as he gets back from his stress fracture, he is running all out workouts.
He's toast
Right. You can see overtraining but Eyestone can’t. He has about 30 years coaching experience and was an elite runner before that. Do you believe Eyestone, who’s been revered on LR, is an idiot? You can have an opinion, but what experience is it based upon?
Wait, some random yahoo on letsrun who goes by uh oh spaghettio knows more than one of the best coaches in the world? That happens every day at LRC.
Rodgers and Beardsley both chose quantity over quality, but they were talented enough they had some good ones.
When did Rodgers ever run a sub-par marathon?
Well he did drop out of the Boston Marathon in his first two attempts (73, 74) and the 76 Olympic marathon was not a good race for him as he was injured.
Actually there may have been advice about one marathon per year and certainly you weren’t paying attention if you weren’t aware of 2 marathons per year as advice being given out. I am not commenting on the merits of the advice, only on its existence.