McKirdy MicrOTQ Marathon

NERunner03533 wrote:

I swear Letsrun is feeling less & less like Letsrun by the day. This event is the exact kind of blue collar, grind it out, event that this place used to love. Too many similar comments to this one on here imo. This event exists because fringe OTQ-types often aren't sponsored, often can't get into the biggest marathons, & don't have the same front-end support top elites get. Let's not pretend Chicago/Berlin/London aren't set up to be controlled PB attempts for their fastest invited runners. The only difference, here, are the times, and, for some reason, that seems to bother you. Who shouldn't someone get a good attempt at an OTQ? It's not going to take away from their actual race at the Trials. This race might have them training even harder afterwards.

This sport moved from racing to time trialing long ago. Amateurs seek only races like this, or even ones with close to 1500ft elevation loss to grab their BQs. Boston & NYC will always exist & runners who OTQ here will still try those races. Those races are just logistically difficult, even for fast runners. It's hard to OTQ there. Setting up a race for these athletes should be commended. & it doesn't feel like a money grab. Race is reasonably priced. Volunteers are amazing. Tons of pacers. Some pacers even ran both days to help out 2 different groups of runners. If you can't see the joy in this, maybe do some soul searching.

NERunner03533 wrote:

Laaaaame wrote:

It is. I always feel like I'm the only one who finds these "races" kind of lame. I get that it was originally designed to support those on the OTQ bubble by giving them a no-fuss shot at getting theirs (at least in their case you know they're going to have to slug it out on a real course in the actual trials), but for everyone else it's just sort of turned into a cheap way to churn out PRs without the challenges that normal amateurs *should* have to face (choosing to stick with a slower pack, risk trying to catch a faster one, staying alone, no bottle support, etc). I would much rather my PR come from a true race situation than a breaking-2-esque time trial where I am coddled like a wannabe pro.

I swear Letsrun is feeling less & less like Letsrun by the day. This event is the exact kind of blue collar, grind it out, event that this place used to love. Too many similar comments to this one on here imo. This event exists because fringe OTQ-types often aren't sponsored, often can't get into the biggest marathons, & don't have the same front-end support top elites get. Let's not pretend Chicago/Berlin/London aren't set up to be controlled PB attempts for their fastest invited runners. The only difference, here, are the times, and, for some reason, that seems to bother you. Who shouldn't someone get a good attempt at an OTQ? It's not going to take away from their actual race at the Trials. This race might have them training even harder afterwards.

This sport moved from racing to time trialing long ago. Amateurs seek only races like this, or even ones with close to 1500ft elevation loss to grab their BQs. Boston & NYC will always exist & runners who OTQ here will still try those races. Those races are just logistically difficult, even for fast runners. It's hard to OTQ there. Setting up a race for these athletes should be commended. & it doesn't feel like a money grab. Race is reasonably priced. Volunteers are amazing. Tons of pacers. Some pacers even ran both days to help out 2 different groups of runners. If you can't see the joy in this, maybe do some soul searching.

NERunner03533 wrote:

Laaaaame wrote:

It is. I always feel like I'm the only one who finds these "races" kind of lame. I get that it was originally designed to support those on the OTQ bubble by giving them a no-fuss shot at getting theirs (at least in their case you know they're going to have to slug it out on a real course in the actual trials), but for everyone else it's just sort of turned into a cheap way to churn out PRs without the challenges that normal amateurs *should* have to face (choosing to stick with a slower pack, risk trying to catch a faster one, staying alone, no bottle support, etc). I would much rather my PR come from a true race situation than a breaking-2-esque time trial where I am coddled like a wannabe pro.

I swear Letsrun is feeling less & less like Letsrun by the day. This event is the exact kind of blue collar, grind it out, event that this place used to love. Too many similar comments to this one on here imo. This event exists because fringe OTQ-types often aren't sponsored, often can't get into the biggest marathons, & don't have the same front-end support top elites get. Let's not pretend Chicago/Berlin/London aren't set up to be controlled PB attempts for their fastest invited runners. The only difference, here, are the times, and, for some reason, that seems to bother you. Who shouldn't someone get a good attempt at an OTQ? It's not going to take away from their actual race at the Trials. This race might have them training even harder afterwards.

This sport moved from racing to time trialing long ago. Amateurs seek only races like this, or even ones with close to 1500ft elevation loss to grab their BQs. Boston & NYC will always exist & runners who OTQ here will still try those races. Those races are just logistically difficult, even for fast runners. It's hard to OTQ there. Setting up a race for these athletes should be commended. & it doesn't feel like a money grab. Race is reasonably priced. Volunteers are amazing. Tons of pacers. Some pacers even ran both days to help out 2 different groups of runners. If you can't see the joy in this, maybe do some soul searching.

you aren\'t letsrun wrote:

NERunner03533 wrote:

I swear Letsrun is feeling less & less like Letsrun by the day. This event is the exact kind of blue collar, grind it out, event that this place used to love. Too many similar comments to this one on here imo. This event exists because fringe OTQ-types often aren't sponsored, often can't get into the biggest marathons, & don't have the same front-end support top elites get. Let's not pretend Chicago/Berlin/London aren't set up to be controlled PB attempts for their fastest invited runners. The only difference, here, are the times, and, for some reason, that seems to bother you. Who shouldn't someone get a good attempt at an OTQ? It's not going to take away from their actual race at the Trials. This race might have them training even harder afterwards.

This sport moved from racing to time trialing long ago. Amateurs seek only races like this, or even ones with close to 1500ft elevation loss to grab their BQs. Boston & NYC will always exist & runners who OTQ here will still try those races. Those races are just logistically difficult, even for fast runners. It's hard to OTQ there. Setting up a race for these athletes should be commended. & it doesn't feel like a money grab. Race is reasonably priced. Volunteers are amazing. Tons of pacers. Some pacers even ran both days to help out 2 different groups of runners. If you can't see the joy in this, maybe do some soul searching.

You created your account 4 years ago and have already made 4000 posts. Maybe you should spend a little less time on Letsrun.

It's almost exactly 2 years out from the Olympic Trials and there are already 118 men qualified and 123 women qualified. The 2028 Olympic Trials are going to have MASSIVE fields.

Either the standards need to be increased substantially or these types of "races" shouldn't be eligible for qualification. Imagine if there were 400 qualifiers for the Olympic Trials in the 100m dash. It's ridiculous.

NERunner03533 wrote:

Laaaaame wrote:

It is. I always feel like I'm the only one who finds these "races" kind of lame. I get that it was originally designed to support those on the OTQ bubble by giving them a no-fuss shot at getting theirs (at least in their case you know they're going to have to slug it out on a real course in the actual trials), but for everyone else it's just sort of turned into a cheap way to churn out PRs without the challenges that normal amateurs *should* have to face (choosing to stick with a slower pack, risk trying to catch a faster one, staying alone, no bottle support, etc). I would much rather my PR come from a true race situation than a breaking-2-esque time trial where I am coddled like a wannabe pro.

I swear Letsrun is feeling less & less like Letsrun by the day. This event is the exact kind of blue collar, grind it out, event that this place used to love. Too many similar comments to this one on here imo. This event exists because fringe OTQ-types often aren't sponsored, often can't get into the biggest marathons, & don't have the same front-end support top elites get. Let's not pretend Chicago/Berlin/London aren't set up to be controlled PB attempts for their fastest invited runners. The only difference, here, are the times, and, for some reason, that seems to bother you. Who shouldn't someone get a good attempt at an OTQ? It's not going to take away from their actual race at the Trials. This race might have them training even harder afterwards.

This sport moved from racing to time trialing long ago. Amateurs seek only races like this, or even ones with close to 1500ft elevation loss to grab their BQs. Boston & NYC will always exist & runners who OTQ here will still try those races. Those races are just logistically difficult, even for fast runners. It's hard to OTQ there. Setting up a race for these athletes should be commended. & it doesn't feel like a money grab. Race is reasonably priced. Volunteers are amazing. Tons of pacers. Some pacers even ran both days to help out 2 different groups of runners. If you can't see the joy in this, maybe do some soul searching.

Laaaaame wrote:

Dude, read my comment again. We are in agreement.

I think it's great that this event is set up for the OTQ hopefuls who are the "journeymen" of the sport. If they've tried hitting the standard on an easy eligible course in a traditional racing environment then yes, it's very cool that this race exists as a last-ditch effort to clinch it.

My eyerolling has to do with people who are nowhere near that (i.e. the 1:07-1:19 types in the half and the 2:20-2:44 types in the marathon), skipping out on more traditional events (which sucks depth out of them) where they'd have to grit it out like 99% of the rest of the field. I get the idealistic spirit of having the huge pace groups, the bottle support, and having a course that requires almost no strategy or racing acumen at all, but I feel it sort of cheapens the achievement, since it is basically just a matter of whether or not you can mindlessly follow the pace group the whole way. Why not just take this to its logical conclusion and have no other races at all, and just have a bunch of paid time trial events around tracks or flat loops everywhere? Because it's boring and it's laaaaame

Laaaaame wrote:

Again, that's not my point at all. Even 99% of those OTQ guys don't stand a chance making the actual team and are doing it for personal achievement.

I'm saying, time trialing and getting a PR on a boring flat course that requires zero strategy with a large pace group that is doing all of the work for you the entire race is not the same as time trialing and getting a PR in a true race environment, even on a generic flat course somewhere else.

The event is designed to make getting the OTQ as easy as possible to achieve legally for those who theoretically have the fitness but not the ability to execute in a "real" race. That's fine for those folks, they deserve a chance to see if they can make it in an optimized time trial setup. But that's precisely what it is - an optimized means to an end. They won't have any of the same advantages in the actual trials race, or any other race they do besides this one. Part of the fun of racing is having to figure it out on your own and deal with the unique circumstances of the race that happen that day. Maybe you have to choose between two packs or toughing it out solo for a while. God forbid you have to drink from a regular cup of gatorade like a pleb.

For everyone who is NOT remotely close to making the OTQ and is just using the race as an easy time trial experiment, I just think it's an unnecessary and kind of laaaaame way to claim a PR.

Laaaaame wrote:

Again, that's not my point at all. Even 99% of those OTQ guys don't stand a chance making the actual team and are doing it for personal achievement.

I'm saying, time trialing and getting a PR on a boring flat course that requires zero strategy with a large pace group that is doing all of the work for you the entire race is not the same as time trialing and getting a PR in a true race environment, even on a generic flat course somewhere else.

The event is designed to make getting the OTQ as easy as possible to achieve legally for those who theoretically have the fitness but not the ability to execute in a "real" race. That's fine for those folks, they deserve a chance to see if they can make it in an optimized time trial setup. But that's precisely what it is - an optimized means to an end. They won't have any of the same advantages in the actual trials race, or any other race they do besides this one. Part of the fun of racing is having to figure it out on your own and deal with the unique circumstances of the race that happen that day. Maybe you have to choose between two packs or toughing it out solo for a while. God forbid you have to drink from a regular cup of gatorade like a pleb.

For everyone who is NOT remotely close to making the OTQ and is just using the race as an easy time trial experiment, I just think it's an unnecessary and kind of laaaaame way to claim a PR.