Lost A Ton Of Respect For Molly Seidel

S. Canaday wrote:

what's fair for them is good for us wrote:

SO sketchy.

If a Kenyan Olympic medalist was under a group with this guy's rep, they would be accused all over this site.

Koop from CTS himself has lashed out at me (as well as other ultra-running coachs) on social media over the years. I'll admit the Spring Energy case and 3rd party test results were informative (also eye opening!) and that ultimately he (amongst others) were right to "call me out" (as well as the Roches) on that particular issue. I had no idea Spring could be so off with their nutrition labels and facts. It caused me to cancel my contract mid-year. But in other examples Koop has just lashed out at me:

One of the reasons why was because I pointed out this connection with "how CTS was essentially built on the lies and doping of Lance Armstrong." (I'm very against doping!).

But the other point was "if you are such a good running coach...then why would you not branch out on your own and have your own name/brand/company to coach under?"

He really didn't like that!

Being in Colorado I've seen at lot of the CTS coaches and their "umbrella" under that brand. They have A LOT of money and resources and power. They also charge a massive monthly coaching fee it seems, but also seem to be "recruiting top ultra athletes" as part of the "marketing and sponsorship" approach imo. Cliff is corporate/military background kind of guy. Honestly with a talent like Molly it's just about making sure they can put in some decent volume, a mix of moderate quality and not get injured. She should have been able to be closer to Tara Dower at Black Canyon imo.

Link:www.endurancesportswire.com/cts-welcom...

yeah, no wrote:

S. Canaday wrote:

Koop from CTS himself has lashed out at me (as well as other ultra-running coachs) on social media over the years. I'll admit the Spring Energy case and 3rd party test results were informative (also eye opening!) and that ultimately he (amongst others) were right to "call me out" (as well as the Roches) on that particular issue. I had no idea Spring could be so off with their nutrition labels and facts. It caused me to cancel my contract mid-year. But in other examples Koop has just lashed out at me:

One of the reasons why was because I pointed out this connection with "how CTS was essentially built on the lies and doping of Lance Armstrong." (I'm very against doping!).

But the other point was "if you are such a good running coach...then why would you not branch out on your own and have your own name/brand/company to coach under?"

He really didn't like that!

Being in Colorado I've seen at lot of the CTS coaches and their "umbrella" under that brand. They have A LOT of money and resources and power. They also charge a massive monthly coaching fee it seems, but also seem to be "recruiting top ultra athletes" as part of the "marketing and sponsorship" approach imo. Cliff is corporate/military background kind of guy. Honestly with a talent like Molly it's just about making sure they can put in some decent volume, a mix of moderate quality and not get injured. She should have been able to be closer to Tara Dower at Black Canyon imo.

Link:www.endurancesportswire.com/cts-welcom...

Weird take coming from you, Sage. Of course Molly was capable of being closer to Tara Dower at Black Canyon, but she made some mistakes (which she has talked about) in fueling and hydration, and she is still working to develop skills at downhill running. After all, she was still doing primarily road training up until NYC in November. I'm a fan of hers and never heard of her coach, but I wouldn't dream of thinking somehow he failed her as a coach based on Black Canyon.

Also, nah, you and the Roches didn't deserve all the cr-p you got about Spring Energy. It was bizarre that people were blaming athletes for the sins of the manufacturer when you had nothing to do with it. If Koop was coming at you, he was using it as a pretext to come at you since he had an axe to grind.

S. Canaday wrote:

yeah, no wrote:

Weird take coming from you, Sage. Of course Molly was capable of being closer to Tara Dower at Black Canyon, but she made some mistakes (which she has talked about) in fueling and hydration, and she is still working to develop skills at downhill running. After all, she was still doing primarily road training up until NYC in November. I'm a fan of hers and never heard of her coach, but I wouldn't dream of thinking somehow he failed her as a coach based on Black Canyon.

Also, nah, you and the Roches didn't deserve all the cr-p you got about Spring Energy. It was bizarre that people were blaming athletes for the sins of the manufacturer when you had nothing to do with it. If Koop was coming at you, he was using it as a pretext to come at you since he had an axe to grind.

Thanks. The other time Koop has lashed out at me wasn't even about Spring. He does it with other ultra-coaches in Colorado from time to time (I'm not the only one). Which is weird because "Higher Running" (our small coaching business) is very small potatoes compared to the massive "CTS."

My point was more along the general lines that "it's relatively easier to coach an elite athlete in trail-ultras": Like a 2:2x marathoner doing a runnable ultra course with not much climbing and not much technicality doesn't require as much "coaching influence or differentiation "imo. Coaching a "regular midpack runner" who has a family and full-time and limited time to recover is "harder" imo. It requires more coaching skill. Elite road marathoners already have a lot of mental discipline and durability and aerobic base from being competitive on the roads/track. They have nearly unlimited time to train and recover. Basically all you have to do is: 1. "Teach them nutrition and hydration methods for an ultra (crew support during the race as well as pacing support can help a ton here)" and 2. Make sure they don't get hurt and have gotten in at least some long runs and high mileage weeks with some moderate Tempo-Threshold (LT1 mainly though) miles....that's about it!

The other key factor is: They can't fall on the trail and will still need enough strength to not have a cramp or a total muscle blow-out (that can be solved with a simple Strength Training routine add-on and more vert). Otherwise it's all heart and lung and blood flow efficiency (which elite distance runner already have) and how those relative Running Economy numbers stack up on a "variable trail." However Black Canyon 100km runs pretty consistently as mile splits for a low 8hr there are almost all between 6-min/mile and 9-min per mile pace.

What I would "disrespect" Molly for was if she actually did enter Speedgoat under a fake name a few years ago (if that was true)? That's generally considered very, very against UTMB series rules.

yeah, no wrote:

S. Canaday wrote:

Koop from CTS himself has lashed out at me (as well as other ultra-running coachs) on social media over the years. I'll admit the Spring Energy case and 3rd party test results were informative (also eye opening!) and that ultimately he (amongst others) were right to "call me out" (as well as the Roches) on that particular issue. I had no idea Spring could be so off with their nutrition labels and facts. It caused me to cancel my contract mid-year. But in other examples Koop has just lashed out at me:

One of the reasons why was because I pointed out this connection with "how CTS was essentially built on the lies and doping of Lance Armstrong." (I'm very against doping!).

But the other point was "if you are such a good running coach...then why would you not branch out on your own and have your own name/brand/company to coach under?"

He really didn't like that!

Being in Colorado I've seen at lot of the CTS coaches and their "umbrella" under that brand. They have A LOT of money and resources and power. They also charge a massive monthly coaching fee it seems, but also seem to be "recruiting top ultra athletes" as part of the "marketing and sponsorship" approach imo. Cliff is corporate/military background kind of guy. Honestly with a talent like Molly it's just about making sure they can put in some decent volume, a mix of moderate quality and not get injured. She should have been able to be closer to Tara Dower at Black Canyon imo.

Link:www.endurancesportswire.com/cts-welcom...

Weird take coming from you, Sage. Of course Molly was capable of being closer to Tara Dower at Black Canyon, but she made some mistakes (which she has talked about) in fueling and hydration, and she is still working to develop skills at downhill running. After all, she was still doing primarily road training up until NYC in November. I'm a fan of hers and never heard of her coach, but I wouldn't dream of thinking somehow he failed her as a coach based on Black Canyon.

Also, nah, you and the Roches didn't deserve all the cr-p you got about Spring Energy. It was bizarre that people were blaming athletes for the sins of the manufacturer when you had nothing to do with it. If Koop was coming at you, he was using it as a pretext to come at you since he had an axe to grind.

STRIP THE H20 MOLECULES OFF THE CARB wrote:

yeah, no wrote:

Weird take coming from you, Sage. Of course Molly was capable of being closer to Tara Dower at Black Canyon, but she made some mistakes (which she has talked about) in fueling and hydration, and she is still working to develop skills at downhill running. After all, she was still doing primarily road training up until NYC in November. I'm a fan of hers and never heard of her coach, but I wouldn't dream of thinking somehow he failed her as a coach based on Black Canyon.

Also, nah, you and the Roches didn't deserve all the cr-p you got about Spring Energy. It was bizarre that people were blaming athletes for the sins of the manufacturer when you had nothing to do with it. If Koop was coming at you, he was using it as a pretext to come at you since he had an axe to grind.

Nah, Sage deserves everything he got from SpringGate and more. He immediately came to Spring's defense within hours of the allegations, because he "felt" the gels had to have more calories (that's his #Science for you). He belittled a Type I diabetic who tested the gels on himself and saw a glucose response that was in-line with the alleged carb count. He made some of the stupidest "scientific" claims I've seen (e.g. water vapor has calories, carbohydrates have attached water molecules). And then after all the heat he took on here and Reddit, he then starts playing the "I'm just a sponsored athlete" card, and doesn't even apologize or admit his moronicity until he gets called out yet again.

The Roches get a pass. They immediately made it clear they had no knowledge or involvement in the situation. But more important, they STFU from the onset. Sage couldn't help to show off his #CornellScienceDegree.

Not that I love Koop by any means. But Sage is whitewashing the situation by saying the "Spring Energy results were interesting" lol.

Runforthehillz wrote:

STRIP THE H20 MOLECULES OFF THE CARB wrote:

Nah, Sage deserves everything he got from SpringGate and more. He immediately came to Spring's defense within hours of the allegations, because he "felt" the gels had to have more calories (that's his #Science for you). He belittled a Type I diabetic who tested the gels on himself and saw a glucose response that was in-line with the alleged carb count. He made some of the stupidest "scientific" claims I've seen (e.g. water vapor has calories, carbohydrates have attached water molecules). And then after all the heat he took on here and Reddit, he then starts playing the "I'm just a sponsored athlete" card, and doesn't even apologize or admit his moronicity until he gets called out yet again.

The Roches get a pass. They immediately made it clear they had no knowledge or involvement in the situation. But more important, they STFU from the onset. Sage couldn't help to show off his #CornellScienceDegree.

Not that I love Koop by any means. But Sage is whitewashing the situation by saying the "Spring Energy results were interesting" lol.

Lol, uhh the Roches are by far the worst of the pseudo-science influencers. Megs pretends she has an MD (she went to medical school, never cared for a patient in her life) and David is constantly belittling healthcare professionals and the scientific community as if he is somehow above it all? The analyze listeners blood work, recommend supplements that have no proven benefit and David even came up with his protocol to heal his “plantar tendon” which is amazing as that doesn’t even exist. These 2 are the biggest snake oil cons in the industry and you’re just another one of their Marks. Enjoy slurping your Ketonez!

Jason Koop is wrote:

S. Canaday wrote:

Koop from CTS himself has lashed out at me (as well as other ultra-running coachs) on social media over the years. I'll admit the Spring Energy case and 3rd party test results were informative (also eye opening!) and that ultimately he (amongst others) were right to "call me out" (as well as the Roches) on that particular issue. I had no idea Spring could be so off with their nutrition labels and facts. It caused me to cancel my contract mid-year. But in other examples Koop has just lashed out at me:

One of the reasons why was because I pointed out this connection with "how CTS was essentially built on the lies and doping of Lance Armstrong." (I'm very against doping!).

But the other point was "if you are such a good running coach...then why would you not branch out on your own and have your own name/brand/company to coach under?"

He really didn't like that!

Being in Colorado I've seen at lot of the CTS coaches and their "umbrella" under that brand. They have A LOT of money and resources and power. They also charge a massive monthly coaching fee it seems, but also seem to be "recruiting top ultra athletes" as part of the "marketing and sponsorship" approach imo. Cliff is corporate/military background kind of guy. Honestly with a talent like Molly it's just about making sure they can put in some decent volume, a mix of moderate quality and not get injured. She should have been able to be closer to Tara Dower at Black Canyon imo.

Link:www.endurancesportswire.com/cts-welcom...

Believe me Jason Koop patrols this site and reports everything against him. Every time I mention that he charges over 1k for coaching my posts get deleted. Sensitive man.