Does not take that much to run 2:25

That doesn't make sense, he is splitting faster HM in the full

You could also run 2:15 off that or 3:15 is depends on how much talent you have.

Obviously your talent does not run to common sense, intelligence or indeed modesty.

Do not coach

Both my 5 and 10k PRs last year were during periods where I was injured on and off. Lots of cross-training and couldn't string more than a handful of weeks of running together. Largely, because I was overdoing it.

To be clear, the second half is very close to my 10k PR race pace, but not considerably faster.

Now this is a proper letsrun post!

Would be great to ditch the advanced hobby jogger title and run 2:12 one day...we shall see.

Strongly agree about the foundation. I think a big piece of missing info is that I have almost 2 decades of high level swimming under my belt from childhood. So my base is very strong, but it took a while for it to translate to running.

As for overly complicated, this is definitely the 'fanciest' style of training I've done. My coach is a former sub-4 miler and sub-14 5k guy so I think that his workouts are slightly different from a typical marathon coach. But hey...it worked for me.

Thanks!

There it is OP! 2 decades of high level swimming takes you out of the same pool as a non-talented runner who only runs who probably would struggle to get to their potential (or anywhere close to 225) off of low mileage. It's still crazy to progress past your short distance PBs in this cycle, but high quality + staying healthy + swimming background explains it a little more.

You probably have the potential to earn your pro triathlon card with 1-2 years of real biking. Mid-pack swim & run (@ pro level/would dominate local races) could keep you in the middle. Something to think about. Or finding a way to stay healthy + get in more volume to keep lowering your marathon.

My bad!! My mind read 63.

Congratulations! I think mileage to run a fast marathon is really person dependent. I ran 2:25 off 90 miles per week running six days. I had friends that ran 2:13 to 2:18 on 65 miles per week and other friends that ran 2:08 to 2:11 on 125 per week. One thing we all had in common was a track Tuesday session mixed 400s/800s and a tempo long run every Saturday (18 to 22 miles @ sub 6/mile). Of course this was 45 years ago and allot has changed with shoes and nutrition.

Totally agree NER. Anyone who built a base from a different sport in their youth has a humongous advantage. Gjert Ingebrigtsen also thinks this is the case (attached).

I have done some biking in the past and my FTP was ~4.1 W/kg. The swimming would be trivial. I am being cocky here, but really for anyone who has a swimming background the swim paces for 70.3 or full ironman are easy (this is not true for Olympic distance, much more competitive).

The main thing holding me back from triathlon training is the time commitment. Much easier to dedicate comparatively less time to running than adding swim + bike with a full time job. Triathlon is also much more expensive.

IDK, 5:23 pace for 13.1 after 13.1 hard miles is considerable faster than 5:27 pace for a 10k.

The premise of your thread is super faulty. It should be, "Does not take much to run 2:25, if you're really talented, young, and put together a smart training plan, then have a race day experience with a good course, weather, competition, and race plan."

Thanks TGOB!

So you were basically running the equivalent of a 105 mi week (90 mi * 7 days/6 days) in terms of density, with a day off. Similar to Clayton Young and Conner Mantz now, but they just run even more in six days. Personally, I took 1 day off every other week and found it incredibly helpful for recovery. Likely one of the key factors for me to stay injury free.

Your examples just go to show how mileage is very unique to the individual, and it can also change dramatically over a person's running career.

Lastly, I think I speak for most young bucks here: I have absolutely no idea how you guys trained/raced in the old shoes. Maybe I'm being naive, but I'm not even sure I would be running right now if it weren't for the max cushion foams and carbon plates.

First off, 33:30 10k = 5:23/mi and 71 half = 5:25/mi.

Second, in hindsight, that would have been a much better title which would have saved me a lot of grief haha

You should do triathlon. That's a sport you could probably go pro in or just beat up on all the other amateurs. If you just stick to running you'll always be an advanced hobby jogger

swimming does not really translate to running, no even the base. I was a 15.20 1500 LC freestyler, a 8.04 800, a 3.51 400, and I run a 2.45, (I am 150% sure i was a far superior swimmer than you). I call bs on your times.

You were a WAY better swimmer than me. My swim times are nowhere close.

That being said, my run times are legit, but believe what you want. All good.

I like running right now. Who knows what the future holds...and if I don't give running a proper shot then I'll never know how good I can actually be. If that's 2:25 and I never run faster, so be it. If that's 2:15 with 5 more years of training, great. Even faster? That would be amazing.

Perhaps if I was 18 and was hitting these times I would consider putting life on hold for a bit and chasing a triathlon career. But my job, life and running are more than fulfilling enough for me at this point.

Yeah, just do 5xmile in 5:05 in week 3, why don't more people train like this?

That was an average. My splits were 5:10/04/04/06/07. So it was actually 5:06, whoops. Also, the recovery was 3 min, so plenty of rest.

This was the first workout where I though to myself: Woah, I'm starting to get really fit. This was very surprising to me since I had never been able to run a mi repeat workout below 5:10 average before this.

Prior to this, I trained for a 50k trail race (first and likely last ultra) over the summer where I was doing more mileage. I think I averaged 120 kpw with a few very high weeks (one at 175 km). However, that mileage was way too much and I was completely destroyed. I had to take several weeks below 60 km to recover. Barely made it to the start line and took me a month or two to start feeling normal again.

Is it possible that my body finally adapted to the high mileage stimulus? Maybe, but I did not run consistently high mileage. My training was very erratic because I was self coached then and made bad decisions fuelled by the desire to 'train hard'.

Without all that swimming you'd have run 3:05. I call BS on any long, sustained aerobic work not translating to other aerobic endeavors