Josh MF Hoey Smashes 600m WR

Gordie3 wrote:

d3 middle distance guy wrote:

I think this should be a wake up call to the future 800m pros (might be too late for guys 27-30 I fear).

Speed is the limiting factor for basically all of them. If you want to get faster at the 800, your 400m, your 200m, your 100m, will need to go down accordingly.

This. I've always said it and I'll say it again. 400 speed kills.

Hoey going out in 47.6 does not mean he is capable of 45 in the open. These people need to cool it with their hilariously unrealistic 400M predicitions.

Hoey would run roughly the same time as Seb Coe did over 400m at best.

The thing is, at this point, Hoey doesn't really need to be any faster over 400m. If he already has the endurance to run sub 3:30, then there's no point in him improving his quarter speed. It would be different if he was a 400/800 runner that could run 44.xx and also a 4:00 mile. But that's not his case.

I'm not a fan of the guy, I think he is very shady, and if he ends up breaking the 800M WR I won't be thrilled. But, all that aside, it seems like he has all the tools he needs to do it.

Old 800 head wrote:

Gordie3 wrote:

This. I've always said it and I'll say it again. 400 speed kills.

Hoey going out in 47.6 does not mean he is capable of 45 in the open. These people need to cool it with their hilariously unrealistic 400M predicitions.

Hoey would run roughly the same time as Seb Coe did over 400m at best.

The thing is, at this point, Hoey doesn't really need to be any faster over 400m. If he already has the endurance to run sub 3:30, then there's no point in him improving his quarter speed. It would be different if he was a 400/800 runner that could run 44.xx and also a 4:00 mile. But that's not his case.

I'm not a fan of the guy, I think he is very shady, and if he ends up breaking the 800M WR I won't be thrilled. But, all that aside, it seems like he has all the tools he needs to do it.

There's three types of posters on LetsRun when it comes to 800 training discussion:

1) The rare people that have any idea what they're talking about

2) The people who think because someone ran a 47 that they're capable of something crazy like a 10.4 or a 45 low

3) The people that think someone like Jakob could double threshold his way to a 1:42 despite the fact that he'd get outsprinted by small town HS JV boys.

Most fall into the 2nd and 3rd categories.

longjackssss wrote:

Wrapping up this 600m run with naysayer consensus comments.

Too bad I can't get behind the guy. Nothing in his portfolio up to the age of 25 comes anywhere close to validating this result. Nothing.

Hoey is more sus than Katir, who was triple red flag all the way. After the race he continued without pause for a 6 minute pace glory high 5 lap, which is the tell tale. EPO effect.

At age 20 to 25 he was a 147 high guy, and a 348 1500 guy at best. And IAAF has no results for 400m, where he had to have run 46 in his sprint prime years, you don't go from the 48 high at best which comes with a 147 high, down to running 47 mid and another 200m at that pace.

He might be on something new. and "legal" with his budget. EPO itself isn't just a blood booster, it is anti inflammatory, and effectively halves or more recovery time, which is more the key, as blood boosting methods are out there plenty, and legal. It is like having Viren's blood bags with turbo juice in them.

Right now you have a guy with 46 flat at worst and 329 at worst.

The next bit of the farce would be to win some long distance road race against elites.

That is 800m WR territory no doubt.

Then again, it is a new era, where the haphazard use of diet and supplements like NAC, amino acids, peptides, bicarb, and etc.

Where 327 1500 and 141 is the norm for top 10. It's just a new era, with the athletes proving what works, and might be a great experiment for longevity and performance as we age.

I don't like the fraud of it, but the overall benefits and understanding is of great benefit.

d3 middle distance guy wrote:

Old 800 head wrote:

There's three types of posters on LetsRun when it comes to 800 training discussion:

1) The rare people that have any idea what they're talking about

2) The people who think because someone ran a 47 that they're capable of something crazy like a 10.4 or a 45 low

3) The people that think someone like Jakob could double threshold his way to a 1:42 despite the fact that he'd get outsprinted by small town HS JV boys.

Most fall into the 2nd and 3rd categories.

My point is this. Among the best 800m runners in the US:

Hoey could eat everyone's lunch in a 600m.

It appears he can do this while maintaing the aerobic fitness of an elite miler.

The other genius on this thread thinks that being head and shoulders above the other 800 guys (at 600m) is a result of....the same exact high volume workouts the other guys do.

My suggestion that Hoey has some speed advantage over the field makes him angry because he was 100% sure it would be Hoey's 1500m ability, and that doesn't square with a fast 600m time.

We're in this spot where Hoey is both a world beater at 600m and (most likely still) better than the rest at the mile too, but missed the team

But maybe he is right. Hoey has middling speed and has simply worked hard enough to run 600m at 400m pace.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

snowflakes wrote:

Dude, he would have easily been under Gray’s mark had his brother moved out into lane 2. This bodes well for the 800 if he can maintain the sub 3:30 1500 shape. Wanyonyi is in trouble unless he gets back to that Paris 800m shape we he was in.

Wanyonyi is planning on ditching the 800 after next year, but he did run 1:41.4 last year. He’s a frontrunner which is an effective if vulnerable strategy (almost guarantees podium with his fitness/consistency, but makes winning a delicate balance) in the 800. It feels like he can narrowly be had but you need a near-perfect ride to beat him. Hoey hasn’t been the most trustworthy in that, and Sedjati/Arop have shown how hard it to get it right to the level where you beat him. Arop a whisker short in Paris. Hoey can get in this mix but every year it seems like the big 3 end up being the clear podium.

longjackssss wrote:

Wrapping up this 600m run with naysayer consensus comments.

Too bad I can't get behind the guy. Nothing in his portfolio up to the age of 25 comes anywhere close to validating this result. Nothing.

Hoey is more sus than Katir, who was triple red flag all the way. After the race he continued without pause for a 6 minute pace glory high 5 lap, which is the tell tale. EPO effect.

At age 20 to 25 he was a 147 high guy, and a 348 1500 guy at best. And IAAF has no results for 400m, where he had to have run 46 in his sprint prime years, you don't go from the 48 high at best which comes with a 147 high, down to running 47 mid and another 200m at that pace.

He might be on something new. and "legal" with his budget. EPO itself isn't just a blood booster, it is anti inflammatory, and effectively halves or more recovery time, which is more the key, as blood boosting methods are out there plenty, and legal. It is like having Viren's blood bags with turbo juice in them.

Right now you have a guy with 46 flat at worst and 329 at worst.

The next bit of the farce would be to win some long distance road race against elites.

That is 800m WR territory no doubt.

Then again, it is a new era, where the haphazard use of diet and supplements like NAC, amino acids, peptides, bicarb, and etc.

Where 327 1500 and 141 is the norm for top 10. It's just a new era, with the athletes proving what works, and might be a great experiment for longevity and performance as we age.

I don't like the fraud of it, but the overall benefits and understanding is of great benefit.