Learn to play the guitar. You don’t need to be great at it just good enough to make most women want you. Besides that be active. You don’t need to be a fitness model but enjoying physical activity is very attractive. Finally have a sense of humor. If you can make a chick laugh then you have it easy. You don’t even need to be the comedian. Just watch a funny movie and enjoy it.
even taking your silly theories on apps at face value, what i think you'd be missing is this. it's not that no one cares about personalities.
it's that people using the apps for hookups would be driven entirely by looks. swipe swipe swipe, ok, he/she's hot, dm them. that would show up in stats.
and then someone using it for actual dating might swipe for looks then read profiles and ponder personality when they stop.
you would then have it wrong saying personality doesn't matter because people err pretty.
you would also be conflating how others use the device with your own use. maybe you need to be the outlier who looks more broadly and considers more than photos. and as i tell people on sports recruiting, puts some effort into asking a lot of people.
the vibe i am getting is you employ dumb strategy then don't understand why it doesn't work and then blame the meatmarket instead. you want to swipe for only the conventionally prettiest girls, ignore most women, then pout how it would work out if women treated you reciprocally.
i mean, how you think you get treated on the apps should prompt a different approach to dating. duh. setting aside "the golden rule." which is smart ethics.
Yeah, it’s a numbers game really. Apps are quicker for the search n cutting to the chase. Looks are always first, online or real life. You connect or you don’t.
If you want an easy place to meet women, go swing dancing. There are normally drop-in beginner classes with no partner required and you will rotate partners. Swing dancers tend to be very beginner friendly (unlike say salsa dancers).
That said, don't be creepy. Just go and have a fun time.
You got to put yourself out there. Obviously improve yourself in areas you can, especially in grooming and social interactions.
All the dates that I got after college comes from interest groups that I joined.
1. Find something you enjoy doing that has a substantial representation of girls in your age group.
2. Show up often to get noticed, bringing a friend or 2 can be more disarming.
3. Strike up casual convos with everyone, don't just target the girls, it's just like talking to your mates. (no one should be failing at this part, if you do, you need to work on your basic social skills)
4. At this point, you will be labelled in people's mind as just a friendly guy and girls will drop their defences.
5. Chat to the girls with no expectations, if the chemistry is there, it will proceed naturally.
You see, it isn't too hard. And you are not forcing yourself to be a performative male, even if you don't get any girls, you are doing an activity you enjoy doing.
The first step is doing things other than obsessing over your looks and women - I.e., don't waste your time
the second is not being delusional about yourself; your physical reality I mean, not your behavior, because we already covered delusion about how you occupy your time in point 1
So For 2nd point - let's see. are you actually 5'10'? A lot of people say they're 5'10" and are actually 5'7" or 5'8". Are you really 7/10?
If looks ratings were assigned on a curve where each integer in any direction is equal in magnitude to its opposite, then a 7/10 would be the same abs value off of 5/10 as is the rating of 3/10. But we know that people rarely assign anyone a 3/10.
Dating apps are generally failing you, YEA. But there is no exact answer. What we know for sure is that dating apps are used to make MONEY for a group of people who make it extremely hard to complain about the product they're providing.
There are no quality assurance or contact phone numbers or chats for dating apps. The platforms are dehumanizing. They prey upon inducing primitive comparison games, chase instinct, and breeding dissatisfaction.
One can easily nuke their self-esteem and will to live with these apps. Even good-looking people can get effed up on them.
Anyway Jim Halpert - don't listen to anything I said. Listen to what your well-learned mind and soul tell you after careful consideration.
Think on behalf of yourself tomorrow and in ten years. let that influence what you do more than what anyone tells you you must do
Work on your personality. Have hobbies especially ones that women are equally interested in. Do not use the dating apps! Get out in real life. A social circle like a run club/ book club/salsa dancing are a few ideas. If only more American men were brave enough to take up horseback riding!
it sucks that something i have no control over has effectively tanked my dating chances 🫠
My best advice would be to change your attitude and instead of looking for dates - look for more friends - take an avid interest in any person you meet that you can sense has a compassionate heart.(But be generous in judging people,first impressions ain't always accurate)
Try to be helpful and friendly whenever it feels appropriate - don't expect any in return.
I once did this change and it never ceased to amaze me how many dating opportunities that arrived "organically" - relax,smile to the world,stop looking and hunting - your attitude is something you can always control.
I (20m) don’t think i’m hideous, but I don’t think i’m a supermodel either, i’d say i’m like a 7/10.
Unfortunately, i lack the balls to approach women, and as a result i don’t have any women in my life , im trying to change that by assuring myself that it’s not like id get accused of harassment if i tried, at worst it would probably be a polite no.
I was just curious though, are average guys able to attract women with some effort and courage, or is it more difficult than you would think
Would appreciate to see your thoughts here
i just realised 7/10 isn’t exactly average, above average guys
to try and paint a better picture here is a description of me 5’10 south asian dude in a western country beard been working out for a year that’s the physical characteristics
it sucks that something i have no control over has effectively tanked my dating chances 🫠
"it sucks that something i have no control over has effectively tanked my dating chances"
Nope.
Wrong.
Take it from a gay man who is friends with a ton of women (and these women love to vent and talk about their dating life.)
This is what I'm hearing:
A 7/10 man in appearance is a great start. But for most women, they're not prioritizing your appearance, they're prioritizing other things:
A) Does she feel safe around him? (The number of stories I've heard from women feeling unsafe on dates is nuts) B) Does he listen and ask questions? (A lot of guys only talk about themselves, never asking her questions) C) Does he make her laugh? (By far, the most attractive trait to a woman after feeling safe around him.)
Your looks are fine, 7/10 is good! And it's even okay to be shy. Just start out by asking a lot of questions to women, even practice on just friends or classmates. Really simple, easy questions that show an interest in them beyond their physical appearance. (Easy ones are about popular films, music, pop culture, etc. "What did you think about xx..." but even asking something trivial like "dogs or cats?" led to one of my friends going on a date once.)
You'll be surprised how far that one thing alone will take you.
You got to put yourself out there. Obviously improve yourself in areas you can, especially in grooming and social interactions.
All the dates that I got after college comes from interest groups that I joined.
1. Find something you enjoy doing that has a substantial representation of girls in your age group.
2. Show up often to get noticed, bringing a friend or 2 can be more disarming.
3. Strike up casual convos with everyone, don't just target the girls, it's just like talking to your mates. (no one should be failing at this part, if you do, you need to work on your basic social skills)
4. At this point, you will be labelled in people's mind as just a friendly guy and girls will drop their defences.
5. Chat to the girls with no expectations, if the chemistry is there, it will proceed naturally.
You see, it isn't too hard. And you are not forcing yourself to be a performative male, even if you don't get any girls, you are doing an activity you enjoy doing.
Re "Lose the beard": Wow, obviously posted by a dude who cannot grow a full beard. I'm a woman who never really cared about beards until my husband grew one. Now I do not like him clean-shaven. Made me realize how few men nowadays can quickly grow a full beard. Women are not threatened by a beard - offended that anyone would think women are so simple and weak-minded.
Also, lots of funny videos of babies crying when they see their father beardless for the first time. Not upset when the dad grows a beard, only when it's gone. food for thought.
I (20m) don’t think i’m hideous, but I don’t think i’m a supermodel either, i’d say i’m like a 7/10.
Unfortunately, i lack the balls to approach women, and as a result i don’t have any women in my life , im trying to change that by assuring myself that it’s not like id get accused of harassment if i tried, at worst it would probably be a polite no.
I was just curious though, are average guys able to attract women with some effort and courage, or is it more difficult than you would think
Would appreciate to see your thoughts here
i just realised 7/10 isn’t exactly average, above average guys
to try and paint a better picture here is a description of me 5’10 south asian dude in a western country beard been working out for a year that’s the physical characteristics
it sucks that something i have no control over has effectively tanked my dating chances 🫠
"it sucks that something i have no control over has effectively tanked my dating chances"
Nope.
Wrong.
Take it from a gay man who is friends with a ton of women (and these women love to vent and talk about their dating life.)
This is what I'm hearing:
A 7/10 man in appearance is a great start. But for most women, they're not prioritizing your appearance, they're prioritizing other things:
A) Does she feel safe around him? (The number of stories I've heard from women feeling unsafe on dates is nuts) B) Does he listen and ask questions? (A lot of guys only talk about themselves, never asking her questions) C) Does he make her laugh? (By far, the most attractive trait to a woman after feeling safe around him.)
Your looks are fine, 7/10 is good! And it's even okay to be shy. Just start out by asking a lot of questions to women, even practice on just friends or classmates. Really simple, easy questions that show an interest in them beyond their physical appearance. (Easy ones are about popular films, music, pop culture, etc. "What did you think about xx..." but even asking something trivial like "dogs or cats?" led to one of my friends going on a date once.)
You'll be surprised how far that one thing alone will take you.
Great advice. I'd add b.1 : listen to the answer of the question, think about it and where appropriate, ask a meaningful follow-up. Don't follow the temptation to pivot quickly back to yourself without really listening to what she says. I'll also second the strong value of practicing with conversational questions in other places. Include people from all walks of life that you don't want to date. It's a great way to get better with this and as long as you don't go too crazy with it, people will respond and you'll have casual acquaintances everywhere, which just makes life more interesting. As a bonus, if you're out on a date and the random street vendor, or server, or guy fixing the street light knows you, it's not a bad thing.
Re "Lose the beard": Wow, obviously posted by a dude who cannot grow a full beard. I'm a woman who never really cared about beards until my husband grew one. Now I do not like him clean-shaven. Made me realize how few men nowadays can quickly grow a full beard. Women are not threatened by a beard - offended that anyone would think women are so simple and weak-minded.
Also, lots of funny videos of babies crying when they see their father beardless for the first time. Not upset when the dad grows a beard, only when it's gone. food for thought.
You haven't noticed that it frequently correlates with far-right wing values, including regressive views on women?
My sons are 23 and 25. They are fit. They are good looking. They are smart. They have masters degrees. They make good money. They can't find a date.
I wonder what they're doing wrong.
I always got a lot of dates, before settling down.
I'd say I'm a 7/10 face -- I've been called handsome often enough that it seems plausible, but I've also shared a photo online only to have women decline on-sight. (Ouch!) Basically an OK-looking guy in a group, but not the best looking or even noteworthy in any room.
I know it helps that I'm tall-average (6'0") and fit. (Slim, but more built than the typical serious runner.
On life position, which some people here are talking about:
Even before I had a good job, and a good income, I always had a plan and ambition, and liked what I was doing. This seemed to help. If you have goals and are acting on them, you don't need to be rich in your 20s (definitely not in your early 20s), to attract women at the same stage in their life.
Being excited, happy and ambitious vs being a sad sack probably gives you a 2-3 point boost on a 10-point scale.
Re "Lose the beard": Wow, obviously posted by a dude who cannot grow a full beard. I'm a woman who never really cared about beards until my husband grew one. Now I do not like him clean-shaven. Made me realize how few men nowadays can quickly grow a full beard. Women are not threatened by a beard - offended that anyone would think women are so simple and weak-minded.
You haven't noticed that it frequently correlates with far-right wing values, including regressive views on women?
Huh?
Beards are also very much associated with hippies, hipsters, academic and other stereotypically left/liberal groups.
(Saying this as a bearded liberal, who pulls liberal women with or without my beard.)
Online, women are comparing images attached to abstract sets of characteristics, which naturally privileges the superficial and the quantitative, whereas in person, there is just the person at work and there is the opportunity to see if there is a spark, so only a few guys will succeed online but many will succeed in person to some degree.