It was Hocker, but he’s a 1500/5000m runner. Again, he’s not Hassan. If he ran a paced 5000m against the best American 5/10 guys, he would get dropped by at least Fisher, Young and Blanks.
I think you’re underestimating his Tokyo performance. 12:58 in warm weather with many rounds in his legs, with a 52 close? He ran 7:23 indoors and is a MUCH bigger talent than Young who ran 12:45. He could run 12:45 at BU
1. Hocker will be missed. If one wins the world title at 5,000m, you would be just fine in XC, especially the fast course in Florida. I give him a pass on the long course, however, as long as he's going for gold for the indoor season. We can probably substitute him for an equally capable guy over the XC distance. However, he should be racing the 2K. World Cross is in the USA. Make an exception, bud.
2. Fisher will be missed. Really no excuse here. He's an Olympic medalist in the 10K. He's an American. He should be running the World XC Champs in the USA. Scannel seems to be a coach who overthinks things.
3. Running a hard XC race in early January will make no difference to Fisher or Hocker's indoor (March) and outdoor seasons. If anything, it will benefit them, but sometimes athletes and coaches try to get to cute (see above).
3. I like the World XC being where it is now on the calendar, but when it went up against World Indoors, that made no sense.
4. This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for these American athletes. There truly is nothing like the World Cross Country Championships. It's on home soil. Step up.
5. Nobody talks about the women, but I imagine we (USA) could put together a very solid team with an outside shot of a medal. No low sticks, but some good grouping between 15th and 30th. If there were ever a chance for Cranny or Schwiezer, etc. to win a global medal, this is it.
I don’t know about the men but for the women, it won’t be a fun experience. Last time, Kelati was the first American, 1:50 behind.
World XC is not a once in a lifetime experience. If it was, everyone would run it, but WC and Olympic track is far more important to them.
Agreed. People are way too hard on the athletes, when in reality the athletes are smart for not wanting to participate. They know how much it sucks to have to race these races in the dead of winter with zero chance of medaling against the African contingent at World XC. It sucks and they know it sucks. Fisher gave a great interview a couple years ago and detailed why XC sucks. He said the incentives just are not there. When USATF and IAAF try to squeeze a championship race in the middle of the actual important track seasons, the athletes now have to make training adjustments that they never wanted to do to begin with. The sensible thing needs to be done and just have World XC as part of the Olympics, but those bureaucratic imbeciles won’t listen. XC sucks.
It was Hocker, but he’s a 1500/5000m runner. Again, he’s not Hassan. If he ran a paced 5000m against the best American 5/10 guys, he would get dropped by at least Fisher, Young and Blanks.
I think you’re underestimating his Tokyo performance. 12:58 in warm weather with many rounds in his legs, with a 52 close? He ran 7:23 indoors and is a MUCH bigger talent than Young who ran 12:45. He could run 12:45 at BU
Agreed. Hocker proved in Tokyo that he is just as strong distance-wise as the top US 5k/10k talents. If he had just outkicked everyone in a slow race I would have my doubts, but instead he won gold in the second fastest WC 5k ever, and in hot miserable conditions. There is no way he can’t beat Young and company in the long race if he had time for a proper buildup. Hocker is the best American distance runner right now period, and could trounce Young and company at every distance including a marathon.
I think you’re underestimating his Tokyo performance. 12:58 in warm weather with many rounds in his legs, with a 52 close? He ran 7:23 indoors and is a MUCH bigger talent than Young who ran 12:45. He could run 12:45 at BU
Agreed. Hocker proved in Tokyo that he is just as strong distance-wise as the top US 5k/10k talents. If he had just outkicked everyone in a slow race I would have my doubts, but instead he won gold in the second fastest WC 5k ever, and in hot miserable conditions. There is no way he can’t beat Young and company in the long race if he had time for a proper buildup. Hocker is the best American distance runner right now period, and could trounce Young and company at every distance including a marathon.
Hocker’s dad bod can’t race a 10k, those are facts
Hocker's not a 5-10k guy, so I am not too upset about his not running world xc, but Grant Fisher is and he should do what is good for the country. This is a once in 40-50 year opportunity for the United States in the distances. That is how long it has been since we had a chance to win the world championships in xc. To skip that to run Millrose is not worth it, and don't give me this stuff about not being able to be in shape over two months from now. Besides this might be his only shot at a world or Olympic gold medal.
I’m sorry, but if two out of the three American distance Olympic medalists from Paris (the third being Rooks, who nobody is expecting to run xc anyway) are opting out, US XC has become immediately watered down and uninteresting. Hocker the WC 5000, not even willing to participate makes this sport look like a joke. I am almost willing to bet that as we get closer to December, Young, Blanks, and Mantz will withdraw and so will any other actual elite distance star. The race is a joke with no incentives, run in the dead freezing cold of winter, in rugged unpredictable terrain and dangerous footing, and no American male has medaled at World XC since Virgin. One can’t blame our guys for giving US XC the middle finger. The race and World XC have no prestige anymore, and the guys know even if they did well, it wouldn’t mean anything for their careers. US XC is dead and won’t be back anytime soon.
Mantz might withdraw. I think Nico will run. No way Blanks withdraws. That kid is tough as nails and there isn’t a chance he is going to withdraw because it’s cold and muddy. No greater honor than to wear USA on your chest and represent your country on home soil.
Hocker's not a 5-10k guy, so I am not too upset about his not running world xc, but Grant Fisher is and he should do what is good for the country. This is a once in 40-50 year opportunity for the United States in the distances. That is how long it has been since we had a chance to win the world championships in xc. To skip that to run Millrose is not worth it, and don't give me this stuff about not being able to be in shape over two months from now. Besides this might be his only shot at a world or Olympic gold medal.
There is no way in hell Grant Fisher ever could or will win a World XC gold medal. There is a better chance that there is strawberry ice cream and vanilla fudge sickles at the center of the earth. Let’s get real.
I’m sorry, but if two out of the three American distance Olympic medalists from Paris (the third being Rooks, who nobody is expecting to run xc anyway) are opting out, US XC has become immediately watered down and uninteresting. Hocker the WC 5000, not even willing to participate makes this sport look like a joke. I am almost willing to bet that as we get closer to December, Young, Blanks, and Mantz will withdraw and so will any other actual elite distance star. The race is a joke with no incentives, run in the dead freezing cold of winter, in rugged unpredictable terrain and dangerous footing, and no American male has medaled at World XC since Virgin. One can’t blame our guys for giving US XC the middle finger. The race and World XC have no prestige anymore, and the guys know even if they did well, it wouldn’t mean anything for their careers. US XC is dead and won’t be back anytime soon.
Mantz might withdraw. I think Nico will run. No way Blanks withdraws. That kid is tough as nails and there isn’t a chance he is going to withdraw because it’s cold and muddy. No greater honor than to wear USA on your chest and represent your country on home soil.
It was Hocker, but he’s a 1500/5000m runner. Again, he’s not Hassan. If he ran a paced 5000m against the best American 5/10 guys, he would get dropped by at least Fisher, Young and Blanks.
I think you’re underestimating his Tokyo performance. 12:58 in warm weather with many rounds in his legs, with a 52 close? He ran 7:23 indoors and is a MUCH bigger talent than Young who ran 12:45. He could run 12:45 at BU
Scannell on Grant Fisher - "The other priority for the early season might be that you see him in otherevents that you haven’t seen him in the past.”
Is he talking about half-marathon here? I cant imagine what other event we haven't seen him in unless he is talking about going down in distance and running some 800s
As a huge dancing with the stars fan I'm so hyped for this!!
I think you’re underestimating his Tokyo performance. 12:58 in warm weather with many rounds in his legs, with a 52 close? He ran 7:23 indoors and is a MUCH bigger talent than Young who ran 12:45. He could run 12:45 at BU
How are we defining talent here
Come on. Cole could wash Young and Blanks in a 10k. If he ever tried it, you would see him smoke those guys.
Needed to incentivize this. Clearly, Grant follows the money based on his foray into the mess that was GST. No judgement, just precedent. Big check for running the race. Big bonus for individual result. Big bonus for team result. Incentivize the individual into bringing in other top tier teammates. USATF is good for the money. Probably. No forward thinking here though.
I thought the same thing. All good to get in career best shape in February to run indoors this year and then chase big money running meaningless GST races (that ironically he's not going to get all of), but can't run world cross when it's in his home country?
Just don't get it. And if it turns out he runs a half marathon around that time for some nominal appearance fee and about 15k in possible prize money then I think that's extremely disappointing.
I don’t know about the men but for the women, it won’t be a fun experience. Last time, Kelati was the first American, 1:50 behind.
World XC is not a once in a lifetime experience. If it was, everyone would run it, but WC and Olympic track is far more important to them.
Agreed. People are way too hard on the athletes, when in reality the athletes are smart for not wanting to participate. They know how much it sucks to have to race these races in the dead of winter with zero chance of medaling against the African contingent at World XC. It sucks and they know it sucks. Fisher gave a great interview a couple years ago and detailed why XC sucks. He said the incentives just are not there. When USATF and IAAF try to squeeze a championship race in the middle of the actual important track seasons, the athletes now have to make training adjustments that they never wanted to do to begin with. The sensible thing needs to be done and just have World XC as part of the Olympics, but those bureaucratic imbeciles won’t listen. XC sucks.
I understand that the meet doesn't fall at a time in the calendar that is conventient for some athletes. And I get that the incentives aren't there from their sponsors. Add cross country to the Winter Olympics and suddenly all the athletes and sponsors will be incentivized to do it.
But racing in the "dead of winter"? The race is in Florida, my dude. "Zero chance of medalling?" Fisher has two Olympic medals. XC is a bit different and a medal wouldn't be easy but to say he has zero shot if he went all-in on training for it is crazy.
Needed to incentivize this. Clearly, Grant follows the money based on his foray into the mess that was GST. No judgement, just precedent. Big check for running the race. Big bonus for individual result. Big bonus for team result. Incentivize the individual into bringing in other top tier teammates. USATF is good for the money. Probably. No forward thinking here though.
I thought the same thing. All good to get in career best shape in February to run indoors this year and then chase big money running meaningless GST races (that ironically he's not going to get all of), but can't run world cross when it's in his home country?
Just don't get it. And if it turns out he runs a half marathon around that time for some nominal appearance fee and about 15k in possible prize money then I think that's extremely disappointing.
What does it matter that the race is in his home country? Do these guys owe such allegiance to the United States that they have to forgo better paying race opportunities and instead participate in something they don’t want to do? Grant Fisher being an American (who was born in Canada btw) doesn’t owe the United States anything. Nationality is the result of a genetic accident and historical accident that is determined by one’s parents and that the individual has no choice in. It doesn’t matter that World XC will be in Florida any more than if it were in Zimbabwe, Pakistan, or Australia. Some of you people have extreme notions of and expectations of patriotism. Sheesh.
Agreed. People are way too hard on the athletes, when in reality the athletes are smart for not wanting to participate. They know how much it sucks to have to race these races in the dead of winter with zero chance of medaling against the African contingent at World XC. It sucks and they know it sucks. Fisher gave a great interview a couple years ago and detailed why XC sucks. He said the incentives just are not there. When USATF and IAAF try to squeeze a championship race in the middle of the actual important track seasons, the athletes now have to make training adjustments that they never wanted to do to begin with. The sensible thing needs to be done and just have World XC as part of the Olympics, but those bureaucratic imbeciles won’t listen. XC sucks.
I understand that the meet doesn't fall at a time in the calendar that is conventient for some athletes. And I get that the incentives aren't there from their sponsors. Add cross country to the Winter Olympics and suddenly all the athletes and sponsors will be incentivized to do it.
But racing in the "dead of winter"? The race is in Florida, my dude. "Zero chance of medalling?" Fisher has two Olympic medals. XC is a bit different and a medal wouldn't be easy but to say he has zero shot if he went all-in on training for it is crazy.
Jon, you make fair points, but let me ask you this, and I know that you probably know off the top of your head without even needing to look it up (I legitimately don’t know). Who was the last actual individual from a non-African country to win in either the women’s or men’s race at World XC? Is it Paula Ratcliffe from like 1998? Has anybody else from a non-African country even been on the podium since then? And I just mean the senior division. I know that Ritz was third in junior division. The odds are stacked against Fisher and company.
I understand that the meet doesn't fall at a time in the calendar that is conventient for some athletes. And I get that the incentives aren't there from their sponsors. Add cross country to the Winter Olympics and suddenly all the athletes and sponsors will be incentivized to do it.
But racing in the "dead of winter"? The race is in Florida, my dude. "Zero chance of medalling?" Fisher has two Olympic medals. XC is a bit different and a medal wouldn't be easy but to say he has zero shot if he went all-in on training for it is crazy.
Jon, you make fair points, but let me ask you this, and I know that you probably know off the top of your head without even needing to look it up (I legitimately don’t know). Who was the last actual individual from a non-African country to win in either the women’s or men’s race at World XC? Is it Paula Ratcliffe from like 1998? Has anybody else from a non-African country even been on the podium since then? And I just mean the senior division. I know that Ritz was third in junior division. The odds are stacked against Fisher and company.
Last non-African country podium finish in the long course race for men is Mohammed Mourhit of Belgium (Morocco) in 2001. Sergei Lebid of Ukraine was 2nd the same year. Mourhit was nailed for EPO after these races (he won in 2000 as well).
For the women, Lornah Kiplagat won representing Netherlands in 2007 but I think the answer your looking for is Benita Johnson winning in 2004.
If Fisher has any designs on the marathon he's probably got to start exploring now. He'd probably want to shoot for '28 so running a half marathon in the very near future would make sense. So maybe....and frankly hopefully....he's moving in that direction. He simply may not like the rhythm of cross country running.
I thought the same thing. All good to get in career best shape in February to run indoors this year and then chase big money running meaningless GST races (that ironically he's not going to get all of), but can't run world cross when it's in his home country?
Just don't get it. And if it turns out he runs a half marathon around that time for some nominal appearance fee and about 15k in possible prize money then I think that's extremely disappointing.
I think which half marathon it is is a big deal. If he runs in Barcelona (February 15) two weeks after Millrose vs. Jacob Kiplimo (set WR there last year) and probably 3-4 other 57:xx- 58:xx guys, I will have no complaints. Houston would be less exciting (and before indoors), especially since I doubt Mantz will be there. I'm getting the vibe that Barcelona could indeed be the spot (not sure what domestic HM is in the right window as well.. The other avenue of doing World Indoors is acceptable to me.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.