Follow the true history. Kara and Adam were very successful collegiate runners. Both were in a huge slump and struggling and looking for a change. They chose Alberto. EVERYONE including Coach Wetmore warned them about Alberto’s past and that drug rumors followed his entire career. They both turned their careers around and both praised Alberto for their turn around at the time. As Alberto began to bring in other athletes (and do the same thing he did for Kara and Adam) Kara was no longer the queen and she became bitter. She left and went to Jerry (now a known as another Coach that defends drug use).
These are facts.
I like Kara but some of her schtick is holier than though. She admitted she was prescribed, had a TUE, and took Thyroid medication that was not needed because Alberto got the team doctor to tell her and Adam it was needed. If you go by the intent of the rules, that makes her, a perhaps unwitting, doper.
Follow the true history. Kara and Adam were very successful collegiate runners. Both were in a huge slump and struggling and looking for a change. They chose Alberto. EVERYONE including Coach Wetmore warned them about Alberto’s past and that drug rumors followed his entire career. They both turned their careers around and both praised Alberto for their turn around at the time. As Alberto began to bring in other athletes (and do the same thing he did for Kara and Adam) Kara was no longer the queen and she became bitter. She left and went to Jerry (now a known as another Coach that defends drug use).
These are facts.
Yes and they both were more than happy to partake in a number of practices that hovered in the infamous Salazar "grey zone" (which he so famously exploited), right up until it became clear these practices were going to become an issue for them and then it was the big 180 and smoke bomb campaign (a lot of which was true, but that's not the point) to make sure she came out of it squeaky clean.
I'm not defending Alberto at all - but multiple things can be true at the same time. There was also another famous US runner that benefitted "quite substantially" from Albertos practices and basically struck a plea bargain to keep himself out of trouble and conveniently focus all attention on just Alberto (which also worked).
It's cool, she came out of that situation the way she wanted to - didn't catch any shrapnel at all, good for her. But I also think on these topics certain people need to just keep opinions to themselves.
She's one of the good guys thanks to USADA leaving her reputation intact. But bottom line is that she made tremendous progress with Salazar as her coach and Brown as her doctor. And she was never at same level after leaving Salazar.
Most of the athletes coached by Salazar should have gotten suspended, even if short suspensions for collaborating with USADA. If that had happened, would Kara still be one of the good guys? Doubt it.
Didn’t the Gouchers introduce Dr. Brown to Salazar?
Kara Goucher @karagoucher I agree. I don’t understand the leniency for cooperation but I don’t make the rules.
She is responding to the fact that they take a year off of your suspension for admitting you drugged. This is precious coming from someone who was highly suspect herself throughout her career.
Why was my post speculating that Salazar might have consensually applied his special cream on Kara’s vagina while giving her a massage removed? There was nothing profane in it. It’s public and legally documented knowledge by her own admission that the fingering happened. Salazar is known for his fly-by-night cream application tactics in part also by his own admission. It’s not that far fetched to put two and two together.
I actually just don’t trust Kara’s words like many others here. I also don’t think Salazar sexually assaulted her because I have no reason to think he is that type of an exploitative coach (but might have been in other ways that are not sexual). That leaves only two possibilities if the purported event actually happened: 1) he consensually pleasured her, which seems very unlikely to me as I have no reason to think Kara would seek pleasure that way with little else to suggest that those two had an affair; 2) it was something an aggressive boundary-pushing coach might arguably do consensually in order to give that extra edge to his pupil without leaving any evidence or needing any TUE or other documentation and at least giving Kara plausible deniability that she ever asked for it.
Of course she might’ve made the whole thing up to get back at him, but get back at him for what exactly? That doesn’t compute either given the evidence of their affectionate relationship Salazar produced the whole time they worked together.
I don't fit any of your strawmen, want to give it another shot?
I despise Salazar and 100% support his lifetime ban.
But bottom line is that if you have a coach-led doping scheme that leads to the coach getting a lifetime ban, then there's going to be doped athletes.
And Kara 100% was one of those doped athletes.
Is that the bottom line? This looks like you are trying to rewrite history.
The lifetime ban was from SafeSports, for slippery fingers during a massage. The reach of SafeSports is limited to the US, and to organizations under the scope of the Olympic Committee. Theoretically he could still coach privately, or (if I'm not mistaken) coach AAU athletes, or at colleges, high schools, or middle schools.
The "coach-led doping scheme" as such did not lead to a lifetime ban. The doping acts that Salazar was sanctioned for 1) testosterone experiments on his non-athlete sons, to which Salazar confessed before the investigations, and 2) Salazar's role in Magness's (also a competing athlete) rule violation of infusing too much liquid within 6 hours. This led to a number of findings such as trafficking testosterone to third parties, possession of a banned substance outside its prescribed purpose, and attempted obstruction of the process, (including sending an email). All of the findings combined led to a 4-year ban.
Outside of Magness' infusion, none of the decisions involved the doping of any NOP athlete by Salazar, including Kara.
Aside from your sick glorification of sexual assault as "slippery fingers", the rest of your post is factually incorrect. For starters, Salazar was banned for 3, not 2, doping offenses, and at least 2 decisions did involve other NOP athletes. Stop rewriting history.
Is that the bottom line? This looks like you are trying to rewrite history.
The lifetime ban was from SafeSports, for slippery fingers during a massage. The reach of SafeSports is limited to the US, and to organizations under the scope of the Olympic Committee. Theoretically he could still coach privately, or (if I'm not mistaken) coach AAU athletes, or at colleges, high schools, or middle schools.
The "coach-led doping scheme" as such did not lead to a lifetime ban. The doping acts that Salazar was sanctioned for 1) testosterone experiments on his non-athlete sons, to which Salazar confessed before the investigations, and 2) Salazar's role in Magness's (also a competing athlete) rule violation of infusing too much liquid within 6 hours. This led to a number of findings such as trafficking testosterone to third parties, possession of a banned substance outside its prescribed purpose, and attempted obstruction of the process, (including sending an email). All of the findings combined led to a 4-year ban.
Outside of Magness' infusion, none of the decisions involved the doping of any NOP athlete by Salazar, including Kara.
Aside from your sick glorification of sexual assault as "slippery fingers", the rest of your post is factually incorrect. For starters, Salazar was banned for 3, not 2, doping offenses, and at least 2 decisions did involve other NOP athletes. Stop rewriting history.
“Pervert Go Home” is confusing the allegations recited in the Arbitration findings rather than the arbitrators’ conclusions. Rekrunner is correct. The conclusions did not involve any NOP athlete and Magness was only deemed an “athlete” because he had not filed retirement paperwork. The liquid involved was L-Carnitine, a legal supplement. The issue was that Magness received an infusion that exceeded daily limits.
No. You are the confused one, confusing "involved" with "banned" or something. Don't remember? Read the tampering decision and the decision about the forbidden injections.
Magness was still competing, getting 2nd place in some state championchip IIRC.
Follow the true history. Kara and Adam were very successful collegiate runners. Both were in a huge slump and struggling and looking for a change. They chose Alberto. EVERYONE including Coach Wetmore warned them about Alberto’s past and that drug rumors followed his entire career. They both turned their careers around and both praised Alberto for their turn around at the time. As Alberto began to bring in other athletes (and do the same thing he did for Kara and Adam) Kara was no longer the queen and she became bitter. She left and went to Jerry (now a known as another Coach that defends drug use).
These are facts.
I’m going to take a moment to stick up for Kara here. I actually think these narratives are unfair. When Kara came forward in 2015 I was skeptical. Why now at the end of her career? These were rumors everyone knew for a long time. But here’s some things that made me believe she is credible. Her story never changed. She even divulged information she KNEW would make her look bad (like seeing syringes in the fridge during training camps and believing they were Galen’s allergy shots). She was never defensive when it came to criticism. She welcomed it. She understood that reasonable people would doubt her. She owns up to her own mistakes through the process, and that she should have been way less naive. She didn’t come forward in 2015 actually, she came forward earlier than that. She was talking to the FBI at least until 2012 and tried to talk to the press before but they kept killing the story. She has been one of the most consistent people in media when it comes to clean sport, and one of the few to straight shoot the Shelby situation.
Follow the true history. Kara and Adam were very successful collegiate runners. Both were in a huge slump and struggling and looking for a change. They chose Alberto. EVERYONE including Coach Wetmore warned them about Alberto’s past and that drug rumors followed his entire career. They both turned their careers around and both praised Alberto for their turn around at the time. As Alberto began to bring in other athletes (and do the same thing he did for Kara and Adam) Kara was no longer the queen and she became bitter. She left and went to Jerry (now a known as another Coach that defends drug use).
These are facts.
Wetmore sent them both to the thyroid doctor, the same doctor they both brought their prexisting relationship with into NOP, which if anything corrupted Alberto/NOP. When things fell out (for whatevr reason, they had the nerve to complain about how shady everyone else in the program was on asthma and thyroid meds, just like them.
Aside from your sick glorification of sexual assault as "slippery fingers", the rest of your post is factually incorrect. For starters, Salazar was banned for 3, not 2, doping offenses, and at least 2 decisions did involve other NOP athletes. Stop rewriting history.
"sick glorification"? That tells me something about you. I said he got a lifetime ban as a result of a massage, as opposed to doping violations -- massages where his fingers were where they weren't supposed to be. I can't even imagine how someone can interpret that as "glorification", but you went there.
My post was factually correct by saying "involved the doping of any NOP athlete", rather than your revised "involve other NOP athletes". The two points I listed were the ones involving substances. I excluded "sending an email" (as did the CAS on appeal) as an example of a "doping act", but did mention it as an example of a "finding" of "obstruction" (or more accurately, "tampering"). My brief post was not meant to be exhaustive, but in fact, in two brief sentences, managed to cover all 3 violations found by the AAA Panel, and all 3 violations found by the CAS Panel.
To be more precise and exhaustive:
In the first arbitration, Salazar was found by the AAA Panel to have committed 3 anti-doping rule violations: "Administration, Tampering and Trafficking".
- The Administration was for Salazar's role in Magness's rule violation of an infusion with too much liquid. This involved the doping of an athlete, an exception I clearly noted.
- The Tampering was for an email he sent to NOP athletes, trying to make a distinction between "infusions" and "injections". While this Tampering decision did "involve other NOP athletes", this decision did not involve the "doping of any NOP athlete". Even under the broadest definition, it is not considered "doping" for an athlete to receive an email.
- The Trafficking was for his role as supplier for the testosterone experiments on his sons. This decision did not involve the "doping of any NOP athlete".
On appeal, in a "de novo" review, while they upheld the 4-year ban, the CAS technically reversed all three of the the AAA Panel's decisions, replacing them with three new decisions: Posession, Complicity, and Tampering.
This little known fact bears repeating -- the CAS Panel technically overturned all three of the AAA Panel's findings of rule violations.
- They found that under the 2009 WADC, Salazar's role in Magness's violation did not constitute Administration, but rather Complicity. This only involved Magness.
- They explicitly found that sending the email did not constitute Tampering, but that Salazar did Tamper with USADA's investigation by withholding evidence from USADA, that he later relied upon in the AAA Panel, and the CAS Panel proceedings. This involved no doping of NOP athletes.
- They found that USADA did not establish Trafficking of testosterone, but that it's use in the experiment was without acceptable justification, and found that Salazar did violate Possession. This only involved Salazar's sons.
These CAS Panel decisions, with the potential exception of Magness, did not involve the "doping of any NOP athlete".
I didn't mention it, but more worryingly, the CAS Panel's findings speaks to the ambiguity of the rules and definitions in the WADA Code, as all three of the AAA Panel's finding of rule violations were reversed by the CAS Panel, based on their interpretation of the applicable rules and definitions.
This post was edited 10 minutes after it was posted.
Aside from your sick glorification of sexual assault as "slippery fingers", the rest of your post is factually incorrect. For starters, Salazar was banned for 3, not 2, doping offenses, and at least 2 decisions did involve other NOP athletes. Stop rewriting history.
"sick glorification"? That tells me something about you. I said he got a lifetime ban as a result of a massage, as opposed to doping violations -- massages where his fingers were where they weren't supposed to be. I can't even imagine how someone can interpret that as "glorification", but you went there.
My post was factually correct by saying "involved the doping of any NOP athlete", rather than your revised "involve other NOP athletes". The two points I listed were the ones involving substances. I excluded "sending an email" (as did the CAS on appeal) as an example of a "doping act", but did mention it as an example of a "finding" of "obstruction" (or more accurately, "tampering"). My brief post was not meant to be exhaustive, but in fact, in two brief sentences, managed to cover all 3 violations found by the AAA Panel, and all 3 violations found by the CAS Panel.
To be more precise and exhaustive:
In the first arbitration, Salazar was found by the AAA Panel to have committed 3 anti-doping rule violations: "Administration, Tampering and Trafficking".
- The Administration was for Salazar's role in Magness's rule violation of an infusion with too much liquid. This involved the doping of an athlete, an exception I clearly noted.
- The Tampering was for an email he sent to NOP athletes, trying to make a distinction between "infusions" and "injections". While this Tampering decision did "involve other NOP athletes", this decision did not involve the "doping of any NOP athlete". Even under the broadest definition, it is not considered "doping" for an athlete to receive an email.
- The Trafficking was for his role as supplier for the testosterone experiments on his sons. This decision did not involve the "doping of any NOP athlete".
On appeal, in a "de novo" review, while they upheld the 4-year ban, the CAS technically reversed all three of the the AAA Panel's decisions, replacing them with three new decisions: Posession, Complicity, and Tampering.
This little known fact bears repeating -- the CAS Panel technically overturned all three of the AAA Panel's findings of rule violations.
- They found that under the 2009 WADC, Salazar's role in Magness's violation did not constitute Administration, but rather Complicity. This only involved Magness.
- They explicitly found that sending the email did not constitute Tampering, but that Salazar did Tamper with USADA's investigation by withholding evidence from USADA, that he later relied upon in the AAA Panel, and the CAS Panel proceedings. This involved no doping of NOP athletes.
- They found that USADA did not establish Trafficking of testosterone, but that it's use in the experiment was without acceptable justification, and found that Salazar did violate Possession. This only involved Salazar's sons.
These CAS Panel decisions, with the potential exception of Magness, did not involve the "doping of any NOP athlete".
I didn't mention it, but more worryingly, the CAS Panel's findings speaks to the ambiguity of the rules and definitions in the WADA Code, as all three of the AAA Panel's finding of rule violations were reversed by the CAS Panel, based on their interpretation of the applicable rules and definitions.
You must be using some kind of special definition of doping, not the official technical term as defined in the WADA Code. All to make NOP look less dirty than they were. Same old, same old.
Another sad part is that the corrupt doc got only four years total for four ADRVs, and Salazar also only four his three.
Little known fact: each would have gotten four years for just one ADRV, but the Code is so weird that the others did not lead to some additional years.
Kara BEGGED to still be coached by Salazar when their coaching situation fell apart. " Alberto, I love you and love being coached by you. But if you don’t want to coach me anymore, please tell me now. I cannot go through another year by myself like this past year. If you don’t want to coach me, please tell me now so that I can figure out what I am going to do. I can’t stress enough how much I love you coaching me"
She wrote: “I have loved you for years now and don’t see that changing.”
Salazar isn't innocent, BUT NEITHER IS KARA GOUCHER.
I don't think she was suspect. I genuinely do not understand why she seems to be one of the most hated people on letsrun. I'm grateful that she helped expose Salazar and has fought for years for clean sport. She's on the side of the good guys in the fight for clean sport.
Regarding why she is hated…. It’s because she symbolizes the fast hot girl on the xc team that all of the letsrun incels got rejected by over and over.
I don't hate her or like her, I couldn't care less one way or the other. Regardless, she's not hot in my eyes but in your eyes, she is----we all see things differently.
As for announcing, she unfortunately can be a struggle to listen to because anytime I've heard her, she takes every chance to talk about herself.
She broke 2:25 once, by 8 seconds. She then made statements of breaking 2:20 first, then going after Paula's record yet she never broke 2:24. As for her other running accomplishments, she was clearly a decent runner, but Shalane was much better.
As for drugs, only she knows....but yes, she is suspect because of the company *she* chose.
In the first arbitration, Salazar was found by the AAA Panel to have committed 3 anti-doping rule violations: "Administration, Tampering and Trafficking".
- The Administration was for Salazar's role in Magness's rule violation of an infusion with too much liquid. This involved the doping of an athlete, an exception I clearly noted.
. . .
On appeal, in a "de novo" review, while they upheld the 4-year ban, the CAS technically reversed all three of the the AAA Panel's decisions, replacing them with three new decisions: Posession, Complicity, and Tampering.
This little known fact bears repeating -- the CAS Panel technically overturned all three of the AAA Panel's findings of rule violations.
- They found that under the 2009 WADC, Salazar's role in Magness's violation did not constitute Administration, but rather Complicity. This only involved Magness.
. . .
These CAS Panel decisions, with the potential exception of Magness, did not involve the "doping of any NOP athlete".
100%. And to highlight the "doping" that was found related to the "athlete" Magness for which Salazar was found to be complicit , it was for violation of WADA Section M2.2 which prohibits intravenous injections of more than 100 ml in a 12 hour period [even when, as happened here, the infused substance -- L-Carnitine (an amino acid) -- was completely legal].
This is the same violation committed by swimmer Ryan Lochte when he got an IV to cure a hangover. If you recall, he was caught after he posted a picture of of himself and his wife on Instagram getting the IVs.