Alberto Salazar was a renowned high mileage runner even as a teen. So being good at the marathon at a relatively young age isn't a huge stretch of the imagination. Clinger on the other hand was only running a maximum 100mpw up until very recently. He barely touched those numbers at BYU. Meanwhile, Salazar was doing that in highschool.
Alberto Salazar was a renowned high mileage runner even as a teen. So being good at the marathon at a relatively young age isn't a huge stretch of the imagination. Clinger on the other hand was only running a maximum 100mpw up until very recently. He barely touched those numbers at BYU. Meanwhile, Salazar was doing that in highschool.
I think you're wrong.
Salazar in college.
1977 Alberto Salazar XC training 10 weeks 105 108 110 98 109 106 88 100 98 86 (67 44) 14.2 miles average daily mileage 13.0 miles average long run 15 miles longest run
Alberto Salazars 1977 training summary 70 days, 130 sessions 60 doubles 10 singles 21.5% = percentage of individual runs 10 miles or longer (28 out of 130 efforts averaging 11.85 miles, range 10-15 miles) 14.2 miles = avg daily mileage 69 = number of AM runs (including Sunday long run) 7.1 miles = avg AM run 6.2 miles = avg AM run (not including long run) 61 = number of PM runs 8.3 miles = avg PM run long runs (13, 11, 13, 14, 14, 13, 15, 12, 12) 13.0 miles = avg long run 15 miles = longest run. One occurrence. Long runs = 91% of the avg daily mileage Long runs = 13.1% of the avg weekly mileage
Clinger may have bonked but did you see Emily Venters' splits? 1:13/2:13 = 3:26
That's not a typo. Ouch. It looks like she had to stop a number of times in the 2nd half. Kudos for even finishing at that point. Just a reminder that the marathon is a terrible mistress, especially for first timers.
Alberto Salazar was a renowned high mileage runner even as a teen. So being good at the marathon at a relatively young age isn't a huge stretch of the imagination. Clinger on the other hand was only running a maximum 100mpw up until very recently. He barely touched those numbers at BYU. Meanwhile, Salazar was doing that in highschool.
I think you're wrong.
Salazar in college.
1977 Alberto Salazar XC training 10 weeks 105 108 110 98 109 106 88 100 98 86 (67 44) 14.2 miles average daily mileage 13.0 miles average long run 15 miles longest run
Alberto Salazars 1977 training summary 70 days, 130 sessions 60 doubles 10 singles 21.5% = percentage of individual runs 10 miles or longer (28 out of 130 efforts averaging 11.85 miles, range 10-15 miles) 14.2 miles = avg daily mileage 69 = number of AM runs (including Sunday long run) 7.1 miles = avg AM run 6.2 miles = avg AM run (not including long run) 61 = number of PM runs 8.3 miles = avg PM run long runs (13, 11, 13, 14, 14, 13, 15, 12, 12) 13.0 miles = avg long run 15 miles = longest run. One occurrence. Long runs = 91% of the avg daily mileage Long runs = 13.1% of the avg weekly mileage
I think you proved my point. At age 18/19, Salazar was averaging 100mpw before XC, meanwhile clinger didn't hit those numbers until he was a senior in college.
Maybe there's already a thread of this failure, but it's buried way behind many other threads. (sic).
2:16:05
Seems harsh to write this race off as a failure. The marathon is unlike any other event and even having a VERY good 10k to your name is not a guarantee you'll get it right on the first try. He's an immense talent and is moving to the roads at the ideal point in his career to maximize his results going forward, as well as working with the best coach and training group in the US.
So I think he got a taste of the beast, made it home, and will be back for more this spring. What else can you say? The marathon will humble you.
It's weird to call a 2:16 marathon debut a failure. It seems like he had a good training build and started the race healthy. That's already a big win. His first 13.1mi was maybe too quick for his fitness. That's normal for a debut. Looks like a B/B+ to me, assuming he recovers well afterward
I'm going to chalk this up as a long season. He ran 27:11 back in March, then ran really well to set the "american record" in the 25k, didn't look as sharp in his 20k and now this Chicago performance. While not a bad performance, he also failed to qualify for the trials with this effort. He peaked early and probably never had much down time at all this whole 2025
26.2 is a long race. You can be as prepared as a dude that always nails it like a Kipchoge, but things can go sideways.
I'm the first person to hate on BYU athletes, but the Salazar comp and justification is going too deep. The dude just didn't have his day on one of the biggest stages in the sport. It happens
27:11 is flying. I didn't know he ran that this year. He should be able to run a really good marathon in time. The debut can be tough, especially if you are going out at 2:08 pace the first time. There's one American I know of that debuted in 2:08, Ryan Hall. Clinger is likely to drop a lot of time the next time he runs in good conditions. Even at 27, he has a lot of years to get it right and he will run 2:08 or better.
1977 Alberto Salazar XC training 10 weeks 105 108 110 98 109 106 88 100 98 86 (67 44) 14.2 miles average daily mileage 13.0 miles average long run 15 miles longest run
Alberto Salazars 1977 training summary 70 days, 130 sessions 60 doubles 10 singles 21.5% = percentage of individual runs 10 miles or longer (28 out of 130 efforts averaging 11.85 miles, range 10-15 miles) 14.2 miles = avg daily mileage 69 = number of AM runs (including Sunday long run) 7.1 miles = avg AM run 6.2 miles = avg AM run (not including long run) 61 = number of PM runs 8.3 miles = avg PM run long runs (13, 11, 13, 14, 14, 13, 15, 12, 12) 13.0 miles = avg long run 15 miles = longest run. One occurrence. Long runs = 91% of the avg daily mileage Long runs = 13.1% of the avg weekly mileage
I think you proved my point. At age 18/19, Salazar was averaging 100mpw before XC, meanwhile clinger didn't hit those numbers until he was a senior in college.
Where did you get the idea Alberto average 100mpw in high school? Citation?.
He wasn't 18 or 19. He graduated on time, when he was 17.
He FINALLY left BYU! Absolutely ridiculous. Saw him run senior year of High School in 2016. NINE years later he finally decides his "senior" year at BYU at 26 to go pro- even though he STILL had NCAA Track eligibility in 2025. What a joke. NCAA needs to have rules- no one over age 24 no matter what
He FINALLY left BYU! Absolutely ridiculous. Saw him run senior year of High School in 2016. NINE years later he finally decides his "senior" year at BYU at 26 to go pro- even though he STILL had NCAA Track eligibility in 2025. What a joke. NCAA needs to have rules- no one over age 24 no matter what
Yeah he's got a wife and a one-year old too looking like he's coming home to the suburbs from a long day at the office rather than being fresh out of college with no direction like many recent grads... it's all kind of laughable. But I think what's done is done on that front. Question though: do all these Mormons just go to mixers??? church??? early on and then couple up for life? They're all married at young ages. It's clearly a cultural thing I guess which I honestly didn't know anything about until we started seeing all these great BYU runners recently.
As for the 2:16, honestly a few years ago that wouldn't be half bad but the bar is much higher now on the men's side (he's got his training partners specifically to thank for that) and the fact that he didn't even qualify for the Trials makes the time seem worse.
Also, he wore the Hyperion Elite 4 PB rather than the Elite 5s (the latter is pretty much universally recognized as a better race shoe which is interesting).
If ya'll are selling your Clinger stock I'm buying. This is a real "prisoner of the moment" thread.
I'm buying Clinger stock as well. He will run 2:07. In the last YouTube video posted on Conner Mantz, I knew something was up.. Clinger's form was a bit off and then they dropped him so quickly I either thought, oh, his form has an issue or dang, he's got an iron issue or just burnt. He'll be back!
Clinger may have bonked but did you see Emily Venters' splits? 1:13/2:13 = 3:26
That's not a typo. Ouch. It looks like she had to stop a number of times in the 2nd half. Kudos for even finishing at that point. Just a reminder that the marathon is a terrible mistress, especially for first timers.
Kudos? 2:13 is slower than 9:00 pace and she should have dropped out long before the finish line.
If ya'll are selling your Clinger stock I'm buying. This is a real "prisoner of the moment" thread.
I'm buying Clinger stock as well. He will run 2:07. In the last YouTube video posted on Conner Mantz, I knew something was up.. Clinger's form was a bit off and then they dropped him so quickly I either thought, oh, his form has an issue or dang, he's got an iron issue or just burnt. He'll be back!
And even with those challenges, he still ran a faster debut than Letesenbet Gidey!
Love this. I think there’s so much more to the marathon than half and under. You’re dealing with fueling for the first time, that much impact for such a long time. People are more critical of a bad marathon than a bad 10k because the time difference seems larger. Nobody is saying Jakob should hang up his spikes after a bad 1500 at worlds. If you bonk in a marathon, they demand instant retirement.
I agree with you 100% for everything else, but on Jakob - LetsRun is chock full of people saying Jakob is washed every single time he has a bad race. Every new PR is his "final peak" and it's all downhill from there. If nothing else, LR is consistent in bringing idiot haters out of the woodwork!
It's weird to call a 2:16 marathon debut a failure. It seems like he had a good training build and started the race healthy. That's already a big win. His first 13.1mi was maybe too quick for his fitness. That's normal for a debut. Looks like a B/B+ to me, assuming he recovers well afterward
A 2:16 debut for a guy like him is not a B/B+. I debuted on a more challenging course in 2:17 and I'm irrelevant. I'd say a 2:12 would have been a B for him. He ran 13:13 5k last year, I can name some guys who never went sub 14 and ran 2:12. I was way slower than him and my debut was a 2:17 on a more challenging course, going out in 65 and blowing up. So no matter how you look at it, this was disappointing for him.