Oh, come on! You know if a 16 year-old French or Japanese or whatever athlete dropped a 1:42 from nowhere you'd at least be asking questions. Lutkenhaus is a full 3 seconds faster than any American high-schooler (so up to 18 years old) has EVER run. He might be a generational freak but rationalising it as a big jump due to puberty is a stretch. Again, no American ever - including some of the best 800 runners history, like Brazier and Hoppel - has seen that kind of jump. This is where we have to set biases aside and say that we at least accept why questions may be asked because the plain facts are outlandish.
Does a 10 flat 16 year old Japanese sprinter count?
An honest conversation about Irish athletes needs to mention that they never had a sports star who wasn't a massive doper. Also doping is rife in their most popular sport, can't remember the name because who cares.
Go on then name all the massive Irish Dopers. Fagen and Lombard were nobodies till they got popped
Michelle Smith I'll give you to get you going. Now work away.
Massive names only please.
When you're Done we can start USA, Canada, Morocco and Kenya and see how they stack up
Season's Best of 1:46 last year, PB was 1:45.9. Closes like a train for 4th in 1:42 low.
You all vilified Sedjati for far less so I'm expecting some discussion here.
We’re long overdue for a conversation about Wanyoni and the ‘reacceleration’ ability provided by his coach, the notorious Claudio Berardelli, the Italian equivalent of Bob Kersee and no doubt fan of and inspired by Dr. Gabriele Rosa’s “methods”. Because the highly woke crowd only concentrate on everyone who isn’t of Sub-Saharan descent. Those athlete’s get a pass. Who has taught them to think this way?
Meanwhile, Sedjati catches Hell, McPhillips has joined that bunch with Lutkenhaus of all people while notably not a word about Brazier and his PR after “5 months training”. Sure. Then again maybe the OP is actually a Brit more angry that McPhillips beat Burgin than he is about Sedjati always being maligned while obvious dopers like Wanyonyi skate. 💂♀️☘️
High schoolers often have big jumps while going through puberty. Cian is 23.
Oh, come on! You know if a 16 year-old French or Japanese or whatever athlete dropped a 1:42 from nowhere you'd at least be asking questions. Lutkenhaus is a full 3 seconds faster than any American high-schooler (so up to 18 years old) has EVER run. He might be a generational freak but rationalising it as a big jump due to puberty is a stretch. Again, no American ever - including some of the best 800 runners history, like Brazier and Hoppel - has seen that kind of jump. This is where we have to set biases aside and say that we at least accept why questions may be asked because the plain facts are outlandish.
You have a noticable problem with anti-white bias. Is it to virtue signal or to gain points with, eh, let’s say a group of some sort? Or is it an ingrained “group” philosophy? If Lutkenhaus were black it’s a guarentee you’d never mention him as being suspect (which he absolutely isn’t). Guarenteed.
None of them get to run behind professionals dragging them to a fast time.
Well, they kind of do. And let's not forget he's a full second faster than any u-18 ever - that includes doped up Kenyan age cheats, and 1.5 seconds faster than Wanyonyi at the same age. Again, rationalise it however you like, it's an eyebrow-raising performance form an runner that wasn't in the resting pool at the time, that this board would tear to shreds if the athlete wasn't American.
I mean, just take a close look at the photo of the Worlds 800m finish. Cian is the only runner whose face is completely relaxed, and he just so happens to be looking over at Sedjati (no doubt an “inspiration” to him).
None of them get to run behind professionals dragging them to a fast time.
Well, they kind of do. And let's not forget he's a full second faster than any u-18 ever - that includes doped up Kenyan age cheats, and 1.5 seconds faster than Wanyonyi at the same age. Again, rationalise it however you like, it's an eyebrow-raising performance form an runner that wasn't in the resting pool at the time, that this board would tear to shreds if the athlete wasn't American.
Four seconds faster than Burgin at the same age, and quite a few Americans were claiming Burgin was doping.
An honest conversation about Irish athletes needs to mention that they never had a sports star who wasn't a massive doper. Also doping is rife in their most popular sport, can't remember the name because who cares.
Coghlan wasn’t a doper. You know this. Never mind other clean champs.
Now Wanyonyi, who runs for a coach who has athletes under suspension (Berardelli) and other athletes with suspicious performance improvements (like his new high-responder, Phanuel Koech), he is ignored completely. He sure has been able to maintain a heck of a performance peak over a long period this year, GST, DL, late season WC. If he didn’t have that protective coloring you’d be all over him.
Not saying he's definitely doping, but next season when a Kenyan athlete drops his PB by 1/4 as much, people here will say that person is doping. I wonder what excuses Coevett has for this one
That’s because Kenya is a hotbed of drug use, and you know it. They actually laugh about and are glad that so many Westerners are dummies and follow silly rules against doping. They merely see drug use as part of training.
People want to point at guys like McPhillips and Lutkenhaus to deflect valid concerns about rampant cheating by Africans. From day one observers knew Nijel Amos was a drug cheat. He cruised for years. When he was finally popped a lot of us wondered how many previous positives had been ignored, as seems to be the case for a lot of Africans and for US sprinters.
Season's Best of 1:46 last year, PB was 1:45.9. Closes like a train for 4th in 1:42 low.
You all vilified Sedjati for far less so I'm expecting some discussion here.
Gosh these unresearched threads are bad.
He ran 3:49 for 1500 at age 15. He ran 1:51 for 800 3 weeks after his 16th birthday. Kid has long been a talent, injury prone talent.
Coudl he be doping? Sure.
But it's totally natural for a fan to be less suspicious of him than Sedjati as Sedjat's hotel room was allegedly raided at the Olympics by the doping authorities.
well in the past decade, Mageean, Adeleke, Thomas Barr, McPhillips and the 4x400 team have had 4th place finishes at World or Olympics. Healy 10th in 1500m this edition. Fionnuala McCormack 9th in Marathon this edition. And then Kate O'connor silver medal today in Heptathlon. Irish athletes are performing well.
Season's Best of 1:46 last year, PB was 1:45.9. Closes like a train for 4th in 1:42 low.
You all vilified Sedjati for far less so I'm expecting some discussion here.
Gosh these unresearched threads are bad.
He ran 3:49 for 1500 at age 15. He ran 1:51 for 800 3 weeks after his 16th birthday. Kid has long been a talent, injury prone talent.
Coudl he be doping? Sure.
But it's totally natural for a fan to be less suspicious of him than Sedjati as Sedjat's hotel room was allegedly raided at the Olympics by the doping authorities.
Sedjati's suspicion on here massively predates the Olympics. From his first run on the circuit in 2021 people were acting like he came out of nowhere even though he medalled in Eugene and made the final in Budapest, and Bryce Hoppel who had much more experience than Sedjati somehow dropped his PB by the same amount he did that year.
Season's Best of 1:46 last year, PB was 1:45.9. Closes like a train for 4th in 1:42 low.
You all vilified Sedjati for far less so I'm expecting some discussion here.
Gosh these unresearched threads are bad.
He ran 3:49 for 1500 at age 15. He ran 1:51 for 800 3 weeks after his 16th birthday. Kid has long been a talent, injury prone talent.
Coudl he be doping? Sure.
But it's totally natural for a fan to be less suspicious of him than Sedjati as Sedjat's hotel room was allegedly raided at the Olympics by the doping authorities.
Also, isn't this the same for Hoey? I assume most people posting here are American so if that's the case I'm actually surprised Hoey gets tons of suspicion on here yet McPhillips with the same background of being a talented junior who lost his way is fine.
Hi, I'm not sure if you follow athletics that closely, but Cian won the European Junior 1500m ,which is about the best predictor that exists currently for future senior success in underage athletics.
No-one has ever heard of people like Nuno Pereira, Adam Cotton, Mario Scapini or Colin Costello. People like Kerr, Wightman, Laros of course went on to have success, but none of them ever had a massive unprecedented drop like this.
Fair points, but when you add in Jacob, who would have won bar falling, and the winner this year who is already a monster, it is probably more likely that not that the winner makes a global impact.
Cian reminds me of Amy Hunt, massive underage talents, who could probably have made an impact sooner if they hadn't put academics first and had injury setbacks.
I genuinely love that he is has only three insta posts in over three and a half years, and is good at other stuff, not just running. Congrats for Worlds. Go the Irish.
Haha, well done Cian, you know you are doing it right when letsrun has a doper thread on you.
OP's main point is we should be even handed on doping accusations for rapid improvers and they are right imo. People should be examined equally.
That said, in this case Cians 100% clean.. I'd bet my life on it. Been watching him since he was 12-13 and he was always a phenom and ice-cold/expressionless racer. He was hurt a lot but even when not he raced very rarely for his college or at all. Became a bookworm. Almost seemed like a guy who didn't enjoy running that much but was just really good at it. He got a fair bit of early media expectation pressure ("the future").
That looks to have changed to me - he seems to be enjoying it now. This doesn't look like his ceiling, or even near it. It kind of looks like his interest is finally peaked. Very interested to see how it progresses.
Oh, come on! You know if a 16 year-old French or Japanese or whatever athlete dropped a 1:42 from nowhere you'd at least be asking questions. Lutkenhaus is a full 3 seconds faster than any American high-schooler (so up to 18 years old) has EVER run. He might be a generational freak but rationalising it as a big jump due to puberty is a stretch. Again, no American ever - including some of the best 800 runners history, like Brazier and Hoppel - has seen that kind of jump. This is where we have to set biases aside and say that we at least accept why questions may be asked because the plain facts are outlandish.
You have a noticable problem with anti-white bias. Is it to virtue signal or to gain points with, eh, let’s say a group of some sort? Or is it an ingrained “group” philosophy? If Lutkenhaus were black it’s a guarentee you’d never mention him as being suspect (which he absolutely isn’t). Guarenteed.
Every accusation is a projection. I've said previously that questions should be raised about both Habz and Phanuel Koech based on performance jumps this year. Sedjati is one of the most suspect runners on the circuit. A 16 year-old running 1:42 is ridiculous. Look at what the equivalents would be across every other event - a 3:45 mile! 9.79 100m! What would you say if you saw those times by a 16 year-old? If you wouldn't have questions then I have a bridge to sell you
Ireland has had very few stars in the past 30 years, so seeing a few rise here, especially someone who dropped 3.5 seconds this year in the 800m with a competition record stretching back to 2017 should get some attention. That in no way means he is doping but the possibility should be admitted because it is a dramatic drop for someone setting down times for nine years now. There were quite a few Europeans (Germans, Dutch, Swedes, ...) doing something similar this year, so maybe the psychological belief in the possibility of success for Euro distance runners from the success of Ingebrigtsen and others, maybe the rise of double threshold, maybe the bicarb, all contributed.