This story has gone mainstream and is being picked up everywhere. For example, Megyn Kelly talked about it and has video clips of some of the key moments: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
They can deal with it. Just like any other boy who finishes last. Can’t win them all. They’re not girls. They’re not women. They are jealous of women which is why they want to engage in womens sports and dominate. The trans defenders always scream to the mods behind the scenes to have anyone they disagree with banned for simply posting the truth, and they don’t realize we’re all aware of this. They can’t hide the truth forever.
You can call it that, but then you're moving beyond a point about protection of women's sports to a broader point about whether trans people have the right to be identified as they prefer. Going back to Tucker and Gladwell, I think both would demur from that point while affirming their opposition to trans women competing in the female category. Likewise, I'm happy to debate with reasonable people about whether trans women should be allowed to participate in the female category in sports. I'm not going to debate whether trans people have the right to live in the way that they choose.
I think when we get to the point of just shouting at trans people, telling them that they are male/female then we've moved beyond reasoned debate.
I think you're bright enough to realise that this is sophistry tied to an ideological belief. The fact remains that sports bodies globally are universally all moving one way on this: males (however they think of themselves) are being excluded from female competition and sex testing is becoming standard. The argument to 'include' a subcategory of males in female sport based on that male's subjective sense of self has already been fought (and lost).
We might have different ideas of what an ideology is. The idea that trans people exist, that their sense of self is valid and should be respected isn't ideological in any way. It's just basic decency. We've had many similar fights in the past to have equal respect for different groups in society, and indeed, women fall squarely into that category (incidentally, I'll note that a lot of the people that are so worked about about women's rights in sports have almost nothing to say about far more consequential matters affecting women, like the gender pay gap or the fact that domestic violence is basically decriminalised).
Again, I'm happy to separate that from the debate about trans women competing in the female category. As you say, sports governing bodies are moving towards trans-exclusion from the female category. On balance, I think that's probably the least bad outcome for now. But I don't think that means trans people should just take the L, shut up, and go home. They have a right to fight for their inclusion. The debate is going against them, but it's not over and won't be for as long as trans people exist (which has been forever) so everyone needs to make their peace with that
I'm not going to chime in on whether I agree with Gladwell on this or not, but the dude has some absolutely atrocious takes and I struggle why people still hold him up as an esteemed intellectual.
1.) He's a Joe Paterno apologist 2.) Blames Mary Cain for what Salazar put her through because, as he put it "she (a 17 year old girl) should have known what she was getting in to." 3.) He was "puzzled" and "couldn't find any intellectual justification" (his words) for why Jeffrey Toobin was fired from the New Yorker. For those who don't want to google it, Mr. Toobin was caught literally with his pants down playing with his ding-a-ling during a work zoom meeting.
Or, rather more cynically, he's just following the herd and he's seen that it's much more socially acceptable to be anti-trans now. Given how easily Gladwell seems to be persuaded by single, often not replicable, social science studies in his main line of work, it looks like he's a man of fairly malleable beliefs
This is tricky. I agree that Gladwell too often takes one study or incident and tries to make too much of it.
At the same time, changing one's beliefs based on new evidence is a good thing! Now if one is changing just to go with the tide, that is a different story. In this case it sounds like even then Gladwell was supportive of Ross' side but did not speak up and let somethings slide as a moderator. (Also a moderator really should not take a side in a format like that.)
It is also bad when one side can create a climate where debate cannot occur and that often happens in a wide range of areas ("settled science" in climate change discussions for instance). The trans activists used that tactic often to avoid discussions. As much as I do not like Riley Gaines and don't think she has made the best arguments for protecting women's sport she did help to bring it to light.
Yeah, updating your beliefs when confronted with new evidence is what rational people should do. The issue with Gladwell is he instinctively gives higher priority to counter-intuitive evidence. The studies that are surprising, challenge conventional wisdom. My problem with that is that it isn't really how science functions in the normal run of things. Most ground breaking research builds on previous work incrementally. Genuine, counter-intuitive research findings that are robust are extremely rare. It's worth looking up the "replication crisis" to see why the Gladwell approach is a huge problem. I agree he's a good communicator, he's just not good at sifting and weighing evidence.
When males feel entitled to aggressively enter women's spaces despite repeatedly being asked to leave. Males who do not take NO for an answer. Males who will stop at nothing to get their way.
Some people are telling women the right thing to do now is give in and passively say ok! Really?
You are talking about males who aggressively enter women's spaces. This does NOT apply to most trans women. They are intimidated to enter anyone's space.
At birth they are cis unless genitalia is different. The physician making the determination of gender sees nothing physically that would indicate otherwise, so writes M/F.
It is also bad when one side can create a climate where debate cannot occur and that often happens in a wide range of areas ("settled science" in climate change discussions for instance). The trans activists used that tactic often to avoid discussions. As much as I do not like Riley Gaines and don't think she has made the best arguments for protecting women's sport she did help to bring it to light.
Riley Gaines has basically made it impossible to defend any rights for trans women without being shouted down as the enemy of women (not just women's sports). And her rightwing allies make sure that you would have to live under constant threat of violence if you become a trans ally.
I agree that no matter what policy decision is made someone "loses". Yes, that person can compete, but it still is not an ideal situation for them. We also need to teach the players on the team not to be a--holes because that person is different. We have largely done it with gay athletes. The acceptance in society is pretty darn good (not perfect but that is never going to happen) and with younger people it is more likely that if someone says something anti-gay now, someone will call them out on it. We need that same sort of acceptance with the guy who sees themself as a girl from his male teammates.
The use of "anti" and "pro" are semantic devices. See anti-abortion and pro-life...So yes in a way it is anti-trans just as it is anti-old to exclude 25 year olds from youth sports.
The difference is that gay athletes wanted to be accepted by other men.
Trans women want to be accepted by other women.
Eliza Munshi is lucky she was a track & field athlete. Boys and girls practice together and they go to meets together. She did not have to be separated from her friends and be thrown into a group of boys who can be hostile to her. It does not work that way in teams sports, since boys and girls teams are essentially separate.
They can deal with it. Just like any other boy who finishes last. Can’t win them all. They’re not girls. They’re not women. They are jealous of women which is why they want to engage in womens sports and dominate. The trans defenders always scream to the mods behind the scenes to have anyone they disagree with banned for simply posting the truth, and they don’t realize we’re all aware of this. They can’t hide the truth forever.
Eliza is not jealous of women. Envious, for sure. But not jealous.
And she did not want to dominate girls in sports. She would have finished midpack if she had been allowed to compete with girls.
Twitter’s executive chair Elon Musk said the words “cisgender” and “cis” are considered “slurs” under the social media platform’s content policy, the latest ad-hoc policy change implemented by the billionaire who has previously made controversial remarks on gender identity. pic.twitter.com/cFdvKdqz8B
I'm not going to chime in on whether I agree with Gladwell on this or not, but the dude has some absolutely atrocious takes and I struggle why people still hold him up as an esteemed intellectual.
1.) He's a Joe Paterno apologist 2.) Blames Mary Cain for what Salazar put her through because, as he put it "she (a 17 year old girl) should have known what she was getting in to." 3.) He was "puzzled" and "couldn't find any intellectual justification" (his words) for why Jeffrey Toobin was fired from the New Yorker. For those who don't want to google it, Mr. Toobin was caught literally with his pants down playing with his ding-a-ling during a work zoom meeting.
I give zero fs about his skinny little Canadian ass, but it does show that many of the people who claim to be on the 20 side of this so-called 80/20 issue really aren’t and were just bullied into it.
Or, rather more cynically, he's just following the herd and he's seen that it's much more socially acceptable to be anti-trans now. Given how easily Gladwell seems to be persuaded by single, often not replicable, social science studies in his main line of work, it looks like he's a man of fairly malleable beliefs
It is not anti trans to not support males in girls sports. Only a filthy liberal would believe that
Or, rather more cynically, he's just following the herd and he's seen that it's much more socially acceptable to be anti-trans now. Given how easily Gladwell seems to be persuaded by single, often not replicable, social science studies in his main line of work, it looks like he's a man of fairly malleable beliefs
It is not anti trans to not support males in girls sports. Only a filthy liberal would believe that
They can deal with it. Just like any other boy who finishes last. Can’t win them all. They’re not girls. They’re not women. They are jealous of women which is why they want to engage in womens sports and dominate. The trans defenders always scream to the mods behind the scenes to have anyone they disagree with banned for simply posting the truth, and they don’t realize we’re all aware of this. They can’t hide the truth forever.
Eliza is not jealous of women. Envious, for sure. But not jealous.
And she did not want to dominate girls in sports. She would have finished midpack if she had been allowed to compete with girls.
Incredibly disingenous and skirting the real issues as usual.
Or, rather more cynically, he's just following the herd and he's seen that it's much more socially acceptable to be anti-trans now. Given how easily Gladwell seems to be persuaded by single, often not replicable, social science studies in his main line of work, it looks like he's a man of fairly malleable beliefs
It is not anti trans to not support males in girls sports. Only a filthy liberal would believe that
They disingenuously try to frame it as a civil rights issue when it’s nothing of the sort.
These lying sacks of 💩 can’t even entertain the possibility that they just might have gone too far.
