No, chronic high volume running does not "nearly always" damage your joints. I've seen a lot of joint replacements (thousands) , nearly all from people rusting out, not burning out.
there's at least two doctors (MDs? orthos?) comparing running to the sedentary gen pop. How low do you need to set the bar?
There are many other kinds of vigorous exercise that don't put the same kind of chronic, degenerative stress on the joints distance running does. "What about fat people" isn't relevant. It does damage the joints, period. If you are a real doctor you damn well know it, so I'm not gonna dig up all the decades of proof for you.
Nope. Not a FACT. I've run over 100,000 miles in my life and have run plenty of races over 10K. No issues. Oh, and I've won a couple of age group National Championships too.
Sample size of 1. Oh, and you hide the number of marathons you have raced because it is so few and would confirm my FACT!!!!!!!!!!
Look at how crippled Marathon Maniacs Club is. 300 to be a fully paid up member.
No, chronic high volume running does not "nearly always" damage your joints. I've seen a lot of joint replacements (thousands) , nearly all from people rusting out, not burning out.
there's at least two doctors (MDs? orthos?) comparing running to the sedentary gen pop. How low do you need to set the bar?
There are many other kinds of vigorous exercise that don't put the same kind of chronic, degenerative stress on the joints distance running does. "What about fat people" isn't relevant. It does damage the joints, period. If you are a real doctor you damn well know it, so I'm not gonna dig up all the decades of proof for you.
Yes, exactly. If the choices are running a lot or being completely sedentary, running a lot is obviously the better choice. But if the choices are running 50 mpw vs 15 mpw along with weights and cycling or swimming or some other non-impact exercise, 15 mpw is probably better, especially past age 40.
I used to run 30-50 mpw, but I started having injury problems around age 40. I've been less consistent since then, mostly because the injuries have been extremely demotivating. I took up triathlon and have done a lot of cycling (though I feel like I take my life in my hands with the cycling).
My husband who is now 50 used to run close to 365 days a year, relatively low mileage (35 mpw give or take). He has had surgery on both knees and has cut back a bit, probably runs more like 325 days per year now and isn't so OCD about missing days.
We're both trying to focus more on flexibility and strength along with endurance. We would both really hate to lose the ability to run and just move in general due to overdoing it.
I am 80...ran regularly from age 14 until 45...quit then and have been an avid hiker ever since. No leg problems whatsoever. I see people running who have abyssmal from and look like they are in terrible pain but the foolishly keep running: addicted!
I get injured if I try and train properly but can still go for a jog a couple of times a week
Had plenty of injuries pf finished me off for racing in 40's so started coaching. Got rid of that although came back recently as had to switch my shoe as they have not made for years and run out online. New shoes are all too soft but got some trail shoes and felt good on a trail.
Had a lot of hamstring injuries but do some minimal glute stuff if I remember and it does not give me any probs now.
Just don't push it with injuries I did but held back from wrecking myself - you should be ok
People 10 years oyunder than me seem to struggle walking and even though I am 50 pounds over my racing weight I'm still way ahead of them . Watch their feet they walk like ducks and in another 10 yrs with no walking and driving everywhere they will be on sticks or a mobility scooter
I hear this come up in conversation every few months, usually when a lazy person hears that I do quite a bit of running. I think there are 3 points that explain it away as a common misconception: 1. Anecdotal fallacy: You're always going to hear about the 2 or 3 runners in their 70s that have run for years and have worn out joints. You won't hear near as much about the dozens of runners in their 70s that are still tearing up the roads. 2. People are envious of those of us that are fit. They subconsciously want to justify why they are sedentary when they see how much joy fit healthy people get out of running. 3. You are much more likely to suffer from joint pain by leading a sedentary lifestyle, than you are from running regularly.
Chronic high volume anything (running, lifting, cycling, etc) will wear down your body. However, it is still better than the opposite…doing no physical activity.
The problem is people who focus on physical activity are usually a bit compulsive and do not understand moderation.
Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
I think once you stop competing (with yourself or others) and just focus on the enjoyment of the activity without being compulsive about it then you can truly reap the health benefits without the lingering negative side effects. The problem is by the time you reach this level of self awareness you are already deep into middle age and lingering issues will spring up from time to time.
At 47, I do some sort of running be it sustained or sprints or intervals or even ruck marching 3-4 days week. Usually 4-6mi. I lift or do some sort of bodyweight circuit another 2-3 days a week. I take one day completely off, some weeks 2 days off.
Oh, and I have occasional back pain, but haven’t had knee pain in a while. I am sure I have some level of tendonitis or arthritis or possible herniated disc but it’s never been an everyday pain.
Our Saturday morning meet up run group is now made up of 60 and 70 year olds after over 40 years of running together. We no longer do 20+ mile runs at 5:30 pace, but more like 10 to 13 miles at 9 to 10 minute pace. In this group we have guys who have run western states multiple times, 100s of marathons and lifetime miles well over 100,000. Matter of fact one of the group just completed his 49th Grandmas Marathon. No real joint issues other than genetics at play. Several including me have had AFIB (heart issues) that have slowed them down. Keeps us all healthy and connected, which is super important as we age.
i started runnig again at 50. did 5 marathons and loads local 5s, 10s, halves. typical hobby jogger.
then i got oa out of the blue and a total hip replacement. i am worried about my old leg and also wearing out the prostetic.
im gonna start running gently, low mileage, weights and cycling. i also ski.
i think the oa and running was pure age / coincidence and wouldnt change my 'running' years for anything.
I think each case is unique, and with oa or any medical condition, we should always take the advice of GP or consultant. But by and large, regular exercise is good for your joints and does not cause oa. Much more likely to be caused by genetics, age, weight, joint abnormalities or repetitive stress such as persistently running through pain.
What I've noticed is that people who participate in a sport semi-seriously for a long time tend to learn to take better care of their bodies. You learn to manage injuries, because we all know that some never truly go away. You learn that a bit of pain is just a part of being alive.
The less active population tends to expect injuries to fully heal or rest to cure everything, which just doesn't always happen. We've all stood on a starting line and thought, "My hamstring's a little funky, my left achilles is kinda achey, and my ITB has been giving me crap." If you let all these things stop you, you'll never get to do much.
My dad's been pretty sedentary his whole life. He has achilles issues. His doctor says he needs to let it rest. He's been letting it rest for almost 30 years with pretty much zero improvement. I've tried to get him exercising it, but he thinks more movement will make it worse. I've had achilles issues for almost 10 years as a result of a track injury, but I stay on top of my lower leg exercises and stretches and it's very manageable. It comes and goes depending on my training. I expect to manage it for the rest of my life.
As a doctor, I occasionally see runners with some mild osteoarthritis or a nagging musculoskeletal injury. On rare occasion I see a runner with a debilitating injury (certainly at a lower rate than the general population.
Every single day I see sedentary people with infections requiring foot amputations, PAD that forces them to stop and rest every 30 feet due to relentless pain with exertion, and lower extremity edema that leads to weeping leg wounds and turns a simple walk to the bathroom into a challenge.
We don't have it too bad as far as "wacked" legs go.
Its also worth noting that x may not cause y, but it might exacerbate y in the right person. I think some folks who are prone to DJD may possibly benefit from not pounding every day on knees that are already becoming degenerative. So we are talking maybe that 60 y/o with a family history of DJD that is already suffering himself. It's logical that 10K extra cycles of axial loading on some degenerative knees might be damaging to an extent in that person?
I'm getting close to 60, can't run anymore as it makes my painful knee extremely painful. probably a bad sign, since cycling and swimming don't hurt at all.
I saw Frank Shorter about 8 years ago and he was straight up crippled. Could hardly walk. In fairness, its possible he may have been rehabbing a surgery. But for all we know he has a genetic susceptibility to OA. I believe he has had at least > or = to one TJR.
Pretty sure Frank Shorter has had bilateral total knee replacement. It is usually little waify type dudes like him that can handle decades of high mileage.
I don't run big mileage but it's making me consider whether I should be running more than a few times a week.
I have arthritis. Running can be incredibly painful. I am very slow now. But running is a huge joy to me. Were I to not have run in the past and were I to stop running now I believe it would be worse, as I believe running HELPS rather than HURTS my condition.
I do have to do a lot of cross-training, and a lot of strength and mobility to keep myself moving.
I ran for forty years, backing off from high mileage after fifteen, stopped when I tore the meniscus in my right knee for the second time. Left knee replacement ten years ago, right knee five years later. So now I walk, bike, play tennis and volleyball. I'm more active and fitter than either of my children. Getting old is better than the alternative.
chronic high volume running will nearly always damage your joints. You would have to be some kind of hyper aware zen master to notice it, it's not painful until it's too late.
the really dumb thing to do is run through joint pain, but most runners do
more than running can damage your joints, and avoiding damage from running isn't the only thing you need to save them
No, chronic high volume running does not "nearly always" damage your joints. I've seen a lot of joint replacements (thousands) , nearly all from people rusting out, not burning out.
I think it doesn't make see to keep comparing lots of running to being sedentary. We all agree what's better. I think the question is does running accelerate damage say compared to cycling or something? Basic engineering would suggest hammering on your cartilage 5x more per day than average for 40 or 50 years is going to wear things down to some extent depending on genes. You just have to do your own math/risk/benefit. Individual traumatic events are more condusive to DJD like with soccer or football injuries.
The MUCH better question that is emerging is why we are not living a decade or 2 longer than everyone else. That pises me off. Every year another olympian dies in their 60s or 70s. Seems we are living healthier than everyone else but not much longer. Maybe 3-5 years? I want more from my investment.
"Different causes of death contributed to longevity for Olympians as follows: 2.2 years were saved (1.9 to 2.5) from cardiovascular diseases (CVDs); cancer, 1.5 years (1.3 to 1.8); respiratory diseases (eg, influenza, pneumonia), 0.8 years (0.7 to 0.9); external causes (eg, accidents, homicides), 0.5 years (0.4 to 0.6); endocrine and metabolic diseases (eg, diabetes, hyperlipidaemia), 0.4 years (0.2 to 0.5) and digestive system diseases (eg, cirrhosis, hepatic failure), 0.3 years (0.2 to 0.4). Mortality rates due to nervous system disorders (eg, Alzheimer’s and Parkinsons’s diseases) and mental illness (eg, dementia, schizophrenia) were not different from the general population."