Why do old guys insist that Michael Jordan was the best when clearly Lebron has passed him?

JJ Reddick and Lebron agree with you. Every other basketball player in the history of the world agrees with me.

LOL. Did you say "weaker"?

https://x.com/tragicpatek/status/1736995343026573531

https://fadeawayworld.net/shaquille-oneal-shows-pic-bulked-big-men-90s-skinny-ones-today

The Center position has changed a ton, yes. They aren’t just huge bruisers. They can shoot and are much more mobile and are expected to defend multiple positions.

Modern centers are harder to play against, even if they’re less physically imposing.

This debate is too much of an apples and oranges comparison. The NBA in the 80s and 90s was played in the paint. From 2000 to present, the game became more and more of a perimeter game. MJ spent his career slashing, driving and dunking over players who were bigger, taller and heavier than he was. Just watch the highlights (or lowlights) from the series with the Pistons. Bodies flying on every drive to the basket.

Lebron plays in a different era. Way more shooting from the 3 point line which makes everyone much more spread out. Drives to the rim are not a priority. Rules changed to clamp down on Lambeer style of play.

So, MJ's career is shorter because he started later and played in a league that was much more physical and played in the paint. If MJ played today, he would be much more like Steph Curry and would be stepping back to the 3 point line more often.

But if I had to pick who was the best, I would go with MJ. He just did things physically that made your jaw drop. Lebron is bigger, taller and is able to overpower other players. MJ beat everyone with his speed and ability to elevate like no other player in basketball history. And in the end, when it counted, MJ was able to get it done better than Lebron. Too many times, Lebron has failed to show up in the stretch and just gets frustrated with his team. MJ was unstoppable when he was on and when he was off, he pushed his team to pick up the slack.

As someone who despised Jordan and loved LeBron when he was with the Heat, I still have to give the edge to Jordan. It's anecdotal, but when the teams I loved played Jordan in the 90s, it felt like a forgone conclusion. You never felt like anyone stood a chance against him.

On the other hand, rooting for LeBron always felt tenuous, and it was. He won a few titles, but he lost way more. LeBron is definitely the better facilitator and even more of a physical specimen, but Jordan was a true killer.

I agree with all of your points. MJ arrived in the league and immediately started doing things on the court nobody had ever seen before. He was breathtaking in a way that LeBron has never been, both on offense and defense. Once he had a good team around him, he was unbeatable. We all know he was 6-0 in the finals, but if he hadn't walked away for a time, he would likely have been 8 or 9-0. LeBron has a losing finals record and he was not part of the dominant team of his era, the Warriors. Jordan was unbeatable when it's crunch time while LeBron often resorts to whining and flopping. LeBron is one of the very best of course, and his longevity is leading to the accumulation of unbelievable career totals, but he's not close to Jordan's intensity, artistry and dominance.

Best championship player: Russell

Best shot: Kareem's sky hook

Best athlete (strength, endurance, jumping): Chamberlain

Best career: LBJ

Most exciting: Jordan

Best shooter: Curry

Malone, Olajuwon, Robinson, Ewing, and other 90s bigs were lethal shooters from the mid-range. Shaq bullied people. Holmgren and Wemby would have a very difficult time guarding Shaq in the post. He'd have them in foul trouble pretty quickly.

Neither Embiid nor Jokic are particularly mobile defenders, but they were the top two MVP candidates three years in a row. They can both shoot the 3, but that's not a big part of their game. If Embiid and Jokic can dominate in today's era, you better believe the best centers from the 90s could, too.

“Every basketball player in the history of the world but JJ Reddick and LeBron James think that Kobe was a better basketball player than LeBron” is EXACTLY the kind of comment you would expect from a loony who believes Kobe was better.

Nostalgia.

GOAT discussions are a waste of time, unless you're drinking beer

And Labron is still playing. He shouldn't be part of any goat discussions yet

Looks like a straw man to me. Jordan was the best player in the NBA for at least 10 years.

Best career?? How was his career better than Wilt's? Or KAJ's? Or Jordan's? Or Magic's? Or any number of other guys with multiple chips? Longer career maybe but not the best career. Too much losing, too much team jumping, too much ruining team chemistry, too much flopping.

This is true about only the first part of his career (before his stint with baseball). During the second part of his career, his game was mostly about posting up against shorter and smaller defenders and hitting turnaround jumpers. Just watch the highlight from the second threepeat.

Did you even play the game? I was third runner up MVP at church camp in fifth grade bro. You probably can't even dribble between your legs or shoot a sky hook from half court.

Keep proving my point.

Malone, Olajuwon, Robinson and Ewing were not as good at shooting as Embiid and Jokic. Yes they were all respectable, but they lacked the range (no 3-point game whatsoever), and even 3-pointer aside, here are their career free throw percentages:

Hakeem - 71.2

Robinson - 73.6
Ewing - 74.0

Malone - 76.0

Jokic - 82.4

Embiid - 82.8

Over his last 124 games, Embiid is an 87% free throw shooter. He is the all-time leader in free throws made per game.

Jokic averaged 10.2 assists last season! Moses Malone never averaged more than 1.8 apg during his career.

I don’t disagree that the centers you mentioned would be impactful players in today’s NBA (to varying degrees, from valuable role player to All Star), but don’t act like Jokic and Embiid don’t have any skills that those guys were lacking.

Throughout much of Lebron's career, he hasn't even been the best basketball player on his own team. In Cleveland,. Kyrie was better than him, in Miami D Wade was better than him, and Luka is better than him now in LA. The moment Kobe stepped on the floor as an 18 year old, he was the best player on the Lakers all the way until his last game.

Jordan dominated from his first practice as a rookie. He was immediately the best player on his team, and truly best in the league, though he wasn't mvp the first year. Only Lawrence Taylor can compare as a player who dominated his competition from the moment he started and then proceeded to get better.