D1 confusion

Something seems off about this post. 4:19 junior year isn't good enough but 4:15 in May senior year is and the coach will have an opening? Huh? And the OP has conveniently not come back with the top times from the conference. And he calls a school elite who will take a 4:15 senior? Slow schools won't even have openings for guys thst slow that late.

it may be changed circumstances. but it could also be that the fastest are being signed to be specialist milers while those presenting the slowest mile times are actually XC fodder or there to do something like steeple. you're confusing mile as standard evaluation tool with you're being recruited for that.

eg harvard has a kid who runs 415 in college. he ran the mile once his freshman year. he really runs XC and steeple. i looked it up and he was sub-15 in XC in HS.

kind of like you might find college guys doing some sprints who can't break 11 in a 100 or 50 in a 400. on a really good d1. you look it up, oh, decathlete.

ivy league has guys running sub 4 mile or close to the barrier. 415 is good for about 65th on their indoor performance list. if you're brought in with the 65th best time in the conference, it's either as a project or to do something else.

the 415 kid is 5th in conference at steeple and serviceable for XC and ran at nationals. he's not there to actually run mile.

so two explanations are the team improved or is butting against roster limits. but another is the worst milers or sprinters on a team are not usually there to do that event. they are something else that "has a mile time." if you can't beat the mile time of XC filler or a steeple specialist then you're definitely not good enough for the actual mile specialists.

No.

You still failed to provide rough times from Tfrrs. We know why.

Elite in what sense of the word? Athletics or academics? The current times indicate that your son should reach the goal times. However, 4:15 and 1:52 is still pretty mid. Does he run cross? Can he contribute in the 5/10? The more a distance runner can contribute points-wise, the better. But, are you truly looking for money?

As someone who has worked in D1 coaching, let me offer a little insight. I'll try to make it as short-winded and blunt as possible.

Your kid is having to pay a "tax" in order to make the team because the coach doesn't like dealing with you.

(1) i take something like "ivy" as what is meant by "elite." as in elite academics. that aligns with consdiering d3s, there's a list of a couple conferences and some scattered schools that would overlap with ivy. and you look up ivies and some look like they might want around a 415 or better. which would be above average but not dominant in those d3 conferences.

(2) i found telling the coach comment was not phrased as "does some awesome XC time." it was report back in the spring. that sounds like he's not being seen as XC fodder. like i said, a lot of the kids slower at mile are there for some other reason. if they don't even bother saying, let me know what your XC times are, that says something. the kid i saw at harvard running 415 scores points at steeple, ran sub 15 XC in HS, and runs for harvard XC in their top 10 and makes their postseason teams. so they didn't grab him for the 415.

(3) last, i want to draw attention to -- "This school has not expressed overt interest although they know he is interested and essentially told him through his coach, we will consider looking at you IF you can get to 4:15 and 1:52 in the Spring 2026 season."

if i understand that right, buried beneath obscuring prose, the school got your email, but has not responded back to you or your family to show any interest.

way i now understand your post is you're claiming the college coach called the HS coach and said this. maybe they know each other. maybe he was asking if he has any prospects. and then in passing, he says, yeah, we did get the email from that one kid, "but tell him we don't even look at you unless you run X or Y."

you then need to understand that is "consider looking at you" and not "you will make the team." that sounds like, we don't even pick up the phone for your kid's times.

if that is the case, move on. period. period. period. you have no recruiting relationship. and he's not even open to your kid until he hits a time he won't have a chance at until spring outdoor. with no guarantees when that happens. as transmitted to the coach and not you.

he's leaving the door open if your kid wins state and has been admitted he can change his mind. that's about it.

you're done. move on.

to get at what i am saying on timeframe, if he's chasing NESCAC or UAA he better be in contact now or soon, as many will do prereads and screen kids and nudge them towards early decision, then take up most or all of the roster from ED kids. that all gets done in the fall. you don't even make it to the spring with flexibility to see how the winds with this other coach blow.

d1 recruiting runs fairly similar.

and regular decision, you're applying in like december or january for top academic schools, you hear back in february or march. they then want admissions deposit decisions in a few weeks.

you're then like let me wait on this one coach who has never actually contacted my kid, to see if i can make the time in march-may that makes sensei actually notice him.

do you see how this doesn't really work? either timeframe wise, or make any sense as strategy? like i chase someplace for ED in december. or admissions in february. if i sang that bad boy last thing i am doing is holding out for an uncommunicative school whose actual intended telephone game message was "don't call me til you break these minimums." which your kid doesn't really have the time to get done.

downvote me all you want. buried in this oddly worded post is the fact the coach has not talked to the kid at all. "overtly....." he talked to the kid's coach, supposedly. the kid's coach was told, here are the times we consider. which he doesn't have.

to me that is a message to kid/coach of "i don't pick up the phone until....." kid -- not interested. coach -- if you can help it tell your kids to not write unless they cross this threshold.

This post opened my eyes. I think you are correct. The college coach likely has a fee kids from this school badgering him so he told the high school coach that the kids arent fast enough and that they shouldn't even contact him to they at least hit tim xx. But do that senior year and there will likely be no roster spots because the portal is filling up.

I find it interesting how many people are telling the parent to just give up. Maybe she should. But often times people get jobs, get into colleges, get all kinds of things they want, because they are persistent and follow up and are annoying and diligent and advocate for themselves. I work with a guy who applied to my company three times. For a long time he couldn't even get an interview. Now he's a VP. I also remember another guy who really wanted to join a previous company. In my opinion, he wasn't qualified. But he managed to get in as a contractor and was persistent and diligent and ended up getting hired by another group.

If the coach really doesn't want her kid, he'll get fed up with hearing from her and send her or the kid an e-mail letting her know his lack of interest. But maybe the kids runs well this spring and other recruits fall through. Maybe things work out.

It never hurts to have a thick skin and ask for what you want . . . repeatedly.

As someone pointed out, the reward here is to ultimately have to listen to the coach give you direction for the next 4 years. There isn't a VP job waiting. The roster spot is the same every year. And waiting to commit until spring of senior year is a major mistake. Take the best offer by December or January.

You just answered your own question. If the coach can’t see your kid being a sub 4 miler (or equivalent performance in another event) in college - and relatively quickly - then your son’s “DI” options are going to be programs that won’t exist in a few years or they’re being used for bare minimum sports sponsorship fodder (your kid will have a terrible “fake DI” experience without “DI” support).

I’ve coached at giant P4’s & tiny DII’s & everything in between (“mid major DI’s” & legit DII’s). Wild how much “DI” has changed in the last year. As other posters said and you’ve likely figured out - choose a school that makes sense in every other way - then see if they actually want your son now. Be prepared that likely won’t be a competitive DI.

I know a 1:52 800 HS kid that LSU turned down for a walkon spot. Not looking for money or nothing. Just a spot and they said no. Just a few years ago, that would not have happened at LSU. In fact, I think 1:52 was the standard there, much less as a walkon.

D2 and D3 are about to have more roster spots as D1 narrows athletes. Some of those schools have regional NIL deals. Most elite and true mid-major D1 schools are looking for at least those times you mentioned. 1:52/4:15 will get you on a team finishing 5-10th in their cross regionals with the exception being the south region.

I bet the college coach said no because they didn’t want to deal with you for the next four years.

when i was looking for a grad school, coach at program i wanted to run at the most told me walk on times so fast they had nobody on the roster who could hit that. in my opinion it means one of a few things, either they were facing roster limits, they are setting a high bar because they want to improve a lot (hopium like someone mentioned), or the coach does not have a good grasp on equivalent times for that gender (1500 time they gave was significantly easier than the 5k time). while it's frustrating, either way message was clear they did not want me. found a small school that wanted me. i'm excited. hope your son finds a good fit!

I haven't read the entire thread so forgive me if I'm missing any details. Anyway, we have a 4:07 guy on our team, same age as your son, and even he is not getting offers from elite schools. I've only heard of one elite school calling him, but they're not offering money so far. He does have a number of lesser-than-but-still-decent D1 schools highly interested in him. It's not a grade issue or anything like that. It's just very tough to get to the elite programs now.

The game has completely changed. My advice to our 4:07 guy is to find a school that can develop him and if he wants to go somewhere big time, to transfer in after being developed a bit, but also, if you're developing well, why transfer?

As someone who was a recruited walk-on at Washington, I'd advise anyone to make sure you are going to a place that will develop you into a better runner. It's very hard to train at the right level for yourself if you throw yourself into deep water too soon. I cooked myself into oblivion at UW trying to make it happen fast. It doesn't work like that, you need proper development, so it's best to be on a team with guys you can train with without getting overtrained by blasting your easy days.

I do understand the dilemma as I have a daughter who wants to go to Washington or Stanford, so it's unlikely that she'll be able to run for the college unless I can develop her into a 4:45 or better miler (maybe, but still need another miracle season). She doesn't want to change her school choices for running, which I support completely since academics should come before athletics. So she's going for it big-time in high school since there's no point in saving it for college if you're not going to run there anyway.

A 1:49/4:09 kid in ky conference is walking on at a bottom feeder P4 distance program. It was the best deal he could find.